Saturday, October 4, 2014

Voices From The Diversity Symposium

image001(4)It has been nearly a year since I began a series of columns on diversity in the Adirondacks. Much has happened since then, most notably a challenging, motivating and well-received symposium held in August, “Toward a More Diverse Adirondacks.”

The symposium was a good start to addressing the important challenges in making the Adirondack Park more welcoming and inclusive, thereby increasing the Park’s role in the betterment of the lives of all New Yorkers and giving it a richer, more robustly supported future. But if a good day of conversation was all we accomplished it would amount to very little. So a number of initiatives are underway to the further the work. It is our sincere wish to make diversity part of the cultural DNA of the Adirondacks, as surely for human beings as it is for the natural world.

Over the next months you will hear much more about these initiatives here at the Adirondack Almanack. Starting today I will be offering a monthly column, Toward a More Diverse Adirondacks. Many different people will be contributing, offering a variety of perspectives on diversity and inclusion in the region.

Dave Gibson wrote a fine review of the symposium a month ago. His big take away was that diversity is not inclusion; diversity by itself is not enough. You can read his article here. Today’s column will not be another synthesis. Instead I will offer some excerpts from notes taken of the day’s proceedings, without comment. I do this to offer food for thought as we look forward.

This selection is by no means comprehensive enough to be representative of the richness of the day. Also please note that these are not direct quotes, thus they are paraphrases and interpretations – mostly mine – from my notes and the notes of others.

Voices from the Symposium

I don’t yet feel valued in the Adirondacks. I am accommodated, but not celebrated.

Children are increasingly without any direct contact with nature. Handhelds are a diversion from their harsh reality. Phones are getting smarter, not people…

People who came to work in the mines were ethnically very diverse: Poland, Cuba, Western Europe. They respected each other and their cultures. But being black was not afforded respect.

We all need training. Are the police departments providing diversity training? Are big institutions doing training? Hotels are training staff. Is there diversity training in the schools?

We start by acknowledging that we are unconsciously incompetent on this issue. We have to be each other’s allies.   We have to work together on this.

I’m a white male. This is not about guilt. It’s about moral outrage. In my home county the graduation rate for black males 14 to 18 years of age is the same as the incarceration rate. I my old inner city neighborhood, life expectancy is ten to fifteen years less than in the suburbs a few miles away.

Moral outrage is not good enough. What’s the bottom line? What is the economic incentive?

What’s your music? You can tell from body language. What are you doing to help me feel safe?

There is still a lot of racism here. It is covered up.

What are you doing to make others feel more welcome?

People don’t know how to talk to gay people.

I don’t want to be a token.

Gays didn’t exist before 1971.

We don’t want color blindness. I’m really proud of the color of my skin.

We grow up orphans in our families. We are everywhere.

I am afraid of the stereotypes that people have in their heads about me.

This is about trust.

Will you come into my house when I open up to you on Thanksgiving?

I remember growing up here was very difficult. My father was fearful of the criminal justice system.

Diversity is not inclusion. I never felt included. I was not invited to parties. I was not part of the basic social life of the community.

Privilege itself is not evil. It’s the stuff that goes with it. Who gets it? How do I feel about my privilege? How do I wield it? It’s something everyone wants.

Privilege establishes a gradient that says that there are haves and have-nots. White heterosexual males reside at the apex of privilege.

I have a hard time between me and white people. It’s ingrained. Our trust has been violated so many times. I have been in situations with people friendly to me but the n-word slips out. This is very very difficult, for black people to trust white people. We can do things together. But you’ve got to prove it to me.

This is everyone’s future. Everyone deserves a voice. What are our responsibilities to nature and future generations? The Adirondacks are the poster child for conservation, the great experience. Here we faced acid rain and won. We all need to be there.

Is history important? There is much diversity in the Adirondack past. But the dominant paradigm became the Anglo-Saxon, proud, risk taking, self-made, white, straight, male.

There was a movement where environmental purity was paired with desire for racial purity, this at a time of massive immigration.

Adirondack women were largely left out of the story. For example, their names were often not put on deeds.

I’m a little uncomfortable talking about demographics. How do we insure that they help us to protect the Adirondacks? Tell me how you feel about me. Don’t tell me about statistics. I want to hear you say that you want me here for what I contribute, who I am and what I can provide.

Something magic happens in the forest. Get the kids away from their screens or the hood. The quiet is what affects them. To them it is quiet when something bad has happened. So this takes a couple of exposures. Get them outdoors. When they come back the conversation is different. Now it isn’t hard to get them to come up again.

People of color have resided here from the first days of European occupation as workers.

Broaden your awareness by coming up here. Fly fishing is not just about fishing, it’s about critical thinking. It’s more than recreation, it’s real education

Here is the T-shirt worn by Albany’s Nubian Empire Ski Club: “Who says we don’t?”

We need more staff training. We don’t do multiple languages on our displays. We need French, Spanish, and Chinese.

When straight white privileged people talk about diversity they mean others. Use humanity.

Someone analyzed marketing materials for the Park. There were 859 pictures with people. Almost all were white. In 58 photos race or ethnicity couldn’t be determined. 11 could have been non-white but it was hard to tell. There were no pictures of someone with a disability. There were 49 photos depicting Euro American history – canons, redcoats and so on – only one picture made mention of Iroquois. One caption talked about the Underground Railway Museum. One made mention of women’s suffrage. None directly depicted Lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgendered people.

Majority-minority is a political reality in New York State in next 15 years, by 2030. They need to become connected to the ADKs. This park is their park. How are we perceived by the rest of the State?

Be realistic. Big grand visions don’t work. Start with yourself. How do you incorporate it internally?

This is a model of the world for environmental land use policy. Can we stretch and open up and insist on it being a model of hope?


Pete Nelson

Pete Nelson is a teacher, writer, essayist and activist whose work has appeared in a variety of Adirondack publications, and regularly in the Adirondack Almanack since 2005. Pete is also a founder and current Coordinator of the Adirondack Diversity Advisory Council, which is working to make the Park more welcoming and inclusive.

When not writing or teaching mathematics at North Country Community College, Pete can be found in the back country, making music or even walking on stilts, which he and his wife Amy have done professionally throughout the United States for nearly two decades.

Pete is a proud resident of Keene, and along with Amy and his dog Henderson owns Lost Brook Tract, a forty-acre inholding deep in the High Peaks Wilderness.




55 Responses

  1. Outlier says:

    After nearly a century of “defending democracy” in foreign wars , 50 years of “Civil Rights”, mass immigration, “Great Society”, amnesty for illegal aliens, “free trade” and, now refugee resettlement scams, we’ve passed peak diversity.

    What have we got to show for it? Thousands of dead or permanently impaired soldiers, a mountain of debt, dysfunctional cities, a government that spies on it’s own citizens, schools and services that no longer work, a hollowed out economy. Oh, and don’t forget ebola.

    Before anyone says “Republicans” or “Democrats”, the same thing is happening in Europe.

    The entire premise behind “Toward a More Diverse Adirondacks” is fatally flawed. Based upon the comments of those who are supposed to be “welcomed” and “appreciated”, this overture is likely viewed as another opportunity to take advantage of White Liberal Guilt. Especially priceless was the comment, “We don’t want color blindness. I’m really proud of the color of my skin.”

    People go to the Adirondacks, or any remote place for that matter, to get AWAY from urban and suburban problems, one of which is diversity.

    • JohnL says:

      I’m with you Outlier!!

    • Ethan Friedman says:

      Wow. Let’s see here.

      How on Earth do you get from very real problems (foreign wars of debatable necessity, an education system that’s failing too many students) to criticizing attempts to increase diversity in the Adirondacks? The one has nothing to do with the other.

      Let’s address a few things here:
      I’m a white male. I grew up comfortably off. I don’t want a more diverse Adirondacks out of some attempt to assuage my “White Liberal Guilt”. The hell with that. I want a more diverse Adirondacks because it will be a better Adirondacks. Period

      The Forever Wild lands in the Adirondacks belong equally to every citizen of New York State, whether they live in New York City, Niagara Falls, or Newcomb. Everyone should understand these public lands are theirs to enjoy as they wish and to feel comfortable and welcome if they choose to do so.

      Go talk to a bunch of the middle- and high-schoolers in Park schools. I suspect they understand and appreciate this far more than you do.

      • Outlier says:

        After each of these military interventions, we end up resettling a number of refugees. Korea, southeast Asia and now the middle east. Does it make sense to be bombing Muslim lands and simultaneously resettling Muslims in our country? Especially when they get discouraged with life here and then embrace radicalism?

        It should be obvious that an influx of refugees into the schools will do nothing to help academic performance. I guess that’s OK because we will be more diverse.

        No one is deny the right of anyone to enjoy the Park. There are no toll collectors at the Park entrances.

        But many are getting sick and tired of being blamed for social problems that could be largely eradicated with some personal responsibility.

        Now please explain why a more diverse Adirondacks would be a better Adirondacks.

        • Ethan Friedman says:

          I suggest you do a little research. The US population is currently ~316M people. According to the US Census Bureau, Korean-Americans–which includes those original refugees, their descendants AND Korean-Americans who emigrated separately and THEIR descendants, is only 0.6% of the US population. That’s just 1.7M out of 316M. Vietnamese-Americans are only about 0.5%. So the impact of these resettlements–which I believe to be positive, unlike you–is a vanishingly small chunk of the country.

          As for your final question: Diversity brings with it all sorts of wonderful benefits. Diverse attitudes, for one. Diverse food, for another. I would *love* to be able to choose from as many different cuisines on my visits to the Adirondacks as I can in NY City. Korean and Vietnamese foods, for example, are absolutely delicious.

          Diverse peoples bring new ideas and activities. Ask any surfer–we’re indebted to Hawaiians for introducing THAT idea. Enjoy canoeing? Maybe you should thank the Native Americans.

          Finally, we’re all human underneath, whatever our skin color, sexual preference, or other marker of “diversity.” Meeting, conversing, recreating with, and living next to people of other backgrounds enriches all those concerned.

          Those interested in a more diverse Adirondacks–at least this person interested in one–don’t see it as the cure to all sorts of “social problems.” I don’t want to see more faces of color in the Park to assuage the “guilt” some accuse me of attempting to palliate. I want to see more faces of color in the Park because it’s their Park too and they should enjoy it as much as I do. And I’d enjoy it more if the faces of those I meet in the Park were as colorfully mixed as they are in other areas of our wonderful state.

          • Outlier says:

            You know and I know that a meeting of “community organizers”, “sociologists”, “social justice activists” throwing around terms like “White Privilege” are not simply interested in seeing more ethnic dining opportunities in the Adirondacks.

            The comments from those that were at the conference make it clear that they see this effort as another opportunity to exploit White Liberal Guilt.

            Seriously, could any White get away with a statement these days such as “I am proud of my skin color” or “White Empire Ski Club”? Here it was tolerated BECAUSE the messages came from non-Whites. Doesn’t this seem just a bit condescending?

            Can’t you accept that people may not have the same likes as you? That if they don’t, than there must be the result of a concerted effort to dissuade them?

            If you really want a diverse experience in the great outdoors, perhaps you’d be happier in Central Park. Great restaurants and museums nearby. Convenient transportation as well.

  2. AdirondackWarrior says:

    Forced diversity is not the answer to anything. Most people aspire to be with, socialize with, and live among others of their own likeness. This natural phenomenon governs all walks of life, all creatures large and small, all inhabitants of this great planet, with the exception of man. Man is the only creature in this world with an arrogant disrespect for natural order. Man is the only living being on the planet that crosses these natural boundaries. Not that we should advocate violence to enforce natural segregation, anyone who wishes to wonder and explore should be able to enjoy the liberty and freedom afforded all LEGAL citizens of America.People of all walks of life are created equal, but efforts by government or any organization to promote or forcefully bend the citizens will to accept such is unacceptable.
    Our government cannot be trusted to protect the LEGAL citizens of these United States. This has been proven time and time again especially with the lack of action pertaining to issues like ILLEGAL immigration. These people are criminals with no respect for our laws. The ILLEGAL immigrants present in this country only drain the system of precious resources. Unlike the immigrants of old, this new wave of people refuse to assimilate into our society, they refuse to learn our language, they drain the social programs created to support and reward our LEGAL citizens, who have sacrificed and worked to build this great country and help it prosper. When our great grand parents came to America, they went thru the legal process, they learned the language, and were proud to become citizens, and they were happy to work hard and sacrifice for the betterment of themselves and others around them, and to serve this country, as a result the country prospered. This new wave of immigrants come to America, find a lawyer, sign up for and receive free housing, free food stamps to provide meals, and free medical care, then find jobs, mail all the money back to their country of origin until the pile is sky high, and then leave and return to live in their country of origin like kings. We as a society cannot expect to survive if we are forced to support this criminal activity by those living here ILLEGALLY.
    The government, nor any other organization, should dictate, or force upon us, who we live with. We as LEGAL citizens of this great country can live where we want, with whom we want, for as long as we want. People move to remote locations to escape the cancer of urban sprawl. No one should tread on our liberty to do so, nor should they try to disrupt the natural order to which we seek. There can be no benefit to bringing the cancer we try to escape to our doorsteps.
    Bottom line, LEAVE THE PARK ALONE. Let those who seek sanctuary among its high peeks find the serenity and solitude afforded by their majesty. Let those who seek peace and comfort within the valleys not be forced to defend themselves against the disease they seek to escape. And for those already within the realm of the blue line, if you want urban sprawl, leave, move to the cities and indulge in the gross distortions within.

  3. Jean Demesure says:

    The Adirondack region is very different than the diverse and “vibrant” cities.
    Its uniqueness is precisely how it contributes to diversity, it’s ironic those promoting the diversity fad aren’t aware of that.

  4. Paul K says:

    This Park has been here how long? perhaps they are just not that interested

  5. adkbuddy says:

    Good paying jobs are a key to attracting anyone to any area. Every time you turn around you have groups like Protect the Adirondacks (aka Protect Peter Bauer’s livelihood) and the Sierra Club going all out to stop any economic growth in the Adirondacks.

    • Outlier says:

      In all fairness, some of these groups have stopped some pretty hideous developments. After all, protecting the environment is the raison d’etre of the Park.

      The reality is that, given the limitations of geography, transportation, energy supply and economics, jobs in the Adirondack Park are likely to be limited to tourism and resource extraction.

      Wouldn’t it make more sense for NYS to follow policies that don’t discourage production and reward living on the dole? To retain the population that has traditionally supported the Park politically and with their Dollars instead of driving them to other states?

  6. callmemiss says:

    “I don’t yet feel valued in the Adirondacks. I am accommodated, but not celebrated.”

    National Parks “celebrate” the natural beauty–in all its diverse forms–of this country. The parks are not about any one person or group. Unless and until a potential park visitor understands this, his or her experience of the park will be disappointing.

  7. DanWebster says:

    divesity for what reason? What is so good about it? And what is wrong with homogeneity?

  8. roamin with broman says:

    I have plenty to worry about…worrying about diversity in the ADKs doesn’t make the cut. Even less so once I read the many selfish comments in the main article. I am amazed at too many people’s sense of entitlement.

  9. Hawthorn says:

    Pete really stirred up the racists in their dens with this post. Apparently the closet racists like it too. I’ve never seen so many thumbs up here for such rancid posts.

    • John L says:

      Very predictable Hawthorn. ‘You people’ ALWAYS call those who disagree with you a racist, a sexist, a fillinthblankhere-ist. That saves you the trouble of cogently stating (and defending) your position. I’m sorry, but for this stupid idea, the numbers for and against speak for themselves.

      • Hawthorn says:

        My position is that I have no use for racists. Luckily, you are a dieing demographic and soon will be gone.

        • Outlier says:

          You are free to define the term in any way you choose.

          How much you want to bet that the statement, “I am proud of my skin color” was NOT made by someone who benefits from straight, white, male privilege?

  10. Will Doolittle says:

    So, what the heck? Has some vestigial John Birch Society chapter decided to camp out on Adirondack Almanack? I wouldn’t have known, before the Internet opened my eyes, that you could find 45 people in this country who wouldn’t shake their heads at the ignorance and absurdity of blaming ebola on diversity. Or maybe Outlier and a few pals have made it their mission to go around to various computers checking the thumbs-up box on their posts. I do believe they have nothing better to do, actually. And yes, nameless ones, this is my real name. Look me up and give me a call if you want to debate in person.

    • Pete Nelson Pete Nelson says:

      Thanks Will, you of the real name.

      The use of real names says something, doesn’t it?

      Pete

    • Outlier says:

      It is believed that Thomas Eric Duncan intended to overstay a travel visa to the US. This is a common way to evade immigration laws which can no longer be enforced because it would be “racist” to do so.

      He definitely lied to CDC officials when asked if he had been exposed to anyone with ebola in the past 21 days. The local DA is considering prosecution, but if Duncan lives, you can bet that this will go nowhere.

      Despite this, any proposal to curtail or restrict travel between regions where ebola is present is not on the table.

      This is what ties diversity to ebola.

    • John P. Grant says:

      Really Mr. Doolittle? You wouldn’t have known there are over 45 people in this country who don’t shake their heads at the ignorance and absurdity of blaming what-have-you on whatever?
      I don’t find too many surprises on Adirondack Almanack or in the media in general. Advertising rules media. And opinions, mine included, are generally of the corn pone variety.
      Anyone care to hear about my family’s cultural heritage?
      The little foundation next to the trail on state land where my great grandparents raised fourteen children without any internet connection whatsoever?
      Or isn’t it enough?

    • B says:

      It’s possible to see where traffic to a website is being generated from by typing “linkto:” followed by the page URL into Google.

      It’s fun and informative, and you can even try it with this page.

      It may just tell you what kind of people Outlier, AdirondackWarrior, et.al. really are.

  11. Pete Nelson Pete Nelson says:

    Just checking in here after a few days to say thanks to many of those commenting for proving just how important this issue really is and for doing it with more persuasive power than I could ever muster. Nicely done!

    How predictable was this response? I only hope that there is an additional lesson to be had here, in this age of the facile, vapid comment: that there is an immense difference between acting like one knows what one is talking about in order to defend a noxious, ignorant agenda, and actually knowing something in a real way.

    Here’s to education, in all its forms: from this issue to climate change and beyond, we could use more of it.

    • Outlier says:

      Before the next lesson on climate change, I hope the professors find out why their computer models didn’t foresee an 18 year pause in global temperature rise and uncover the mystery of the missing heat.

      • bill says:

        They have just recently figured this out. Gotta keep up with the scientific research Outlier. But I don’t want to hijack this thread. You are smart so just go research it.

        • Outlier says:

          If you’re referring to the papers by Landerer in Nature Climate Change, I can’t comment directly on the findings since it requires a subscription of $200 dollars a year. Why must I pay taxes for publicly funded research and then pay a subscription fee for the results? Do YOU have a subscription Bill or could you tell us where you got your information?

          I’ll have to rely on the JPL web page summary of the papers:

          http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=4321

          1. Global average surface air temperatures have stopped rising with greenhouse gases.

          2. The upper ocean temperatures are still rising but not enough to account for global warming pause.

          3. Satellite and direct temperature reading show the deep ocean is warming.

          4. Using satellite data and climate simulations of global sea level changes, it is concluded that the oceans of the southern hemisphere absorbed 24%-58% more than previously thought between 1970-2005.

          My question to you (Bill) is, what is the significance of the southern hemispheric storage capacity between 1970 and 2005, when global warming has observed to slow since the late 1990’s? The two time period have almost no overlap.

          I think the answer is in the fact that the conclusion was reached using SIMULATIONS. Recall that the deep ocean measurements showing no warming were made by MEASUREMENTS.

          Looking forward to your answers.

  12. Bob Meyer says:

    All I can say is WOW for both the voices from the symposium & the comments below.
    It seems to me that fear underlies the essence of the comments of the nay sayers.

    • Outlier says:

      The proposals are bound to fail or fall far short of whatever nirvana is intended. There are several reasons why “under served populations” are not big fans of rural places. And none of them have anything to do with “White Privilege”, “micro-aggression”, “unconscious racism” or whatever term the diversity divas coin to cover up their failure. So there is really no reason to fear the proposals.

      What is cause for concern is that a majority-minority population WILL erode public support for the Park as taxes rise to meet the increasing needs for social services (as they must) resulting from the demands of the new majority (as they will).

      Further disturbing is that this development appears to be WELCOMED by many (such as our friends Ethan and Hawthorn) without any consideration of how it will turn out in actual practice. They really believe that there will be some kind of power sharing arrangement with conflicts settled by rational means.

    • Hawthorn says:

      And ignorance–a bad combination.

  13. anotherjoe says:

    One of my grandmothers was an immigrant, from Germany, and the other from Italy. Why do people forget we are a nation of immigrants? I find the views expressed here sad. Yes, they are expressions of fear, and ignorance of our nation’s history, but mostly I find them sad.

    • Paul says:

      I agree.

      This one says it all:

      “People go to the Adirondacks, or any remote place for that matter, to get AWAY from urban and suburban problems, one of which is diversity.”

      Yikes!

    • Outlier says:

      There are several significant differences between immigration in your grandparents day and today:

      1. The immigrants were European and (mostly) Christian which made assimilation more likely.

      2. Little or no social services.

      3. Plenty of jobs for low-skilled workers. Today, with progress in flexible robotics and artificial intelligence, technology will be a significant threat to jobs at all levels.

      4. Fair or unfair, the immigrants were expected to assimilate to a WASP culture.

      5. We were not expected to assimilate to the immigrants.

      6. Troublemakers, such as Emma Goldman were expelled.

      • incredulous says:

        1. Um, what? No, no they weren’t. The ones *you’re* paying attention to were mostly Europeans of Christian background. Some other MAJOR immigrant groups whose numbers were truly massive:
        i. Asians. Chinese immigrants in the 19th c. built our railroads, for example. They emigrated in enormous numbers. Not to the Adirondacks, of course, but to America certainly. Just because they don’t fit your narrative doesn’t mean they didn’t exist. By the friggin’ boatload.
        ii. Jews. A group that was small on a national basis but played a major role in NY State and the Adirondacks. European, yes, but sure as hell not Christian.
        iii. African-Americans. Who did not immigrate by choice but were brought here in chains. Still counts as immigration, bud. Doesn’t matter that your great-grandparents paid their passage in gold while the ancestors of that African-American over there paid theirs in tears.
        iv. And of course the implicit un-immigration (in the form of the forcible driving out) of the Native Americans. Whose lands this all was not that long ago.

        So failing to acknowledge all that enormous population that doesn’t fit your narrative is shortsighted and blinkered.

        2. What does this have to do with anything? If what you’re implying is that immigrants mooch off the social safety net, please do a little ACTUAL research. In point of fact, immigrants–legal AND illegal–pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits. Illegal immigrants, especially. Most submit fake SSNs in order to work, which means SS taxes are withheld from their paychecks without our ever having to pay a penny to them in Social Security benefits. They are a net benefit to our system, not a financial drain. Don’t believe me? Read up on the independent sources that have analyzed this.

        3. Huh? I mean, yes there’s increasing automation. But have you ever, you know, actually talked to business owners, famers, and the like? Farmers are completely and utterly dependent on immigrants to do low-wage jobs Americans don’t want to do. They’d love to hire locally — I’ve talked with multiple farmers who’ve said just this — they just can’t find Americans who are willing to do those jobs. This is not to say our economy doesn’t have massive structural issues. But a shortage of low-wage, low-skill jobs for those willing to work actually isn’t one of them.

        4. Unfair. I mean, the most shortsighted point you’ve made. By your logic, we should all be living in wigwams. After all, why didn’t OUR ancestors assimilate to the dominate North American culture of the time? For that matter, you’re once again ignoring African-Americans. It’s not like they had a choice in the process. Do you think it’s appropriate to say to someone descended from their culture that they should ditch their traditions and become a WASP, something like “so so sorry your great-grandfather was a slave. That must’ve really sucked. And that consequently he and his companions developed a rich, deep culture of their own — but you should chuck all that aside because let’s be honest, people in the North Country can’t be bothered to spell the names you folks give you children, they’re so ridiculous. Plus you look so thuggish in those hoodies and the rap songs scare me.” I mean, really!?

        5. Nor are you now. If you read the posts on this issue you’ll see no one’s said that. I mean, really, show me–show me–where anyone involved w/ the conference has said “hey also we want white Adirondackers to give up their culture. Y’all gon’ have to learn to sing spirituals, fry up some finger-lickin’ chicken, and for God’s sake, get a decent jump shot.” I mean that’s what you’re reading into it despite the fact I haven’t seen that ANYWHERE. Jesus, I want to throw up.

        6. As they are now. Or have you not read about how the Obama Administration has actually increased deportations of immigrants w/ criminal records over prior administrations?

        Goddammit I wasn’t going to feed the trolls, and look what I’ve done: a cool half-dozen paragraphs worth.

        • Outlier says:

          1. I was referring to the poster who had ancestors from Germany and Italy. Certainly there was substantial influx of non-Whites. However, you never mentioned the laws that restricted their ability to enter the US or why those that passed such laws felt it necessary to impose restrictions. As recently as the mid-twentieth century, the US was almost 90% White.

          2. Illegal immigrants get plenty of social services and benefits. If what you say about the illegal immigrants paying more in taxes then they consume is true, why is not even the most fervent open borders advocate calling for a cash reward for illegal immigrants? Most places where illegal aliens settle are not exactly flush with tax revenues.

          3. Why is there a need to pass laws to raise the minimum wage if there is such a labor shortage? As far as not finding, “Americans who are willing to do those jobs”, when I go to White areas of Pennsylvania, the hotel maids, janitors etc. are all White. The fact that George W. Bush often made this argument ought to tell you something.

          4. Most Indians didn’t exacly welcome White immigration, which was understandable. The ones who did often wanted Whites or their weapons to settle scores with tribal enemies.

          5. So ridiculous that it defies a response.

          6. Please check your facts (and the LA Times is not exactly anti-immigrant):

          http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-deportations-20140402-story.html#page=1

          Why do I think “incredulous” will not be called out for posting anonymously?

  14. joe says:

    The ending lines of the poem at the base of the Statue of Liberty say

    “Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

    That expresses my view on immigration. It is who we are and have been for a long time.

  15. John Warren John Warren says:

    “The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations… To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world… He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither…” – The Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776.

    “The bosom of America is open to receive not only the Opulent & respectable Stranger, but the oppressed & persecuted of all Nations & Religions; whom we shall wellcome to a participation of all our rights & previleges.” – George Washington, 1783

    “After 200 years . . . [America is] still a beacon, still a magnet for all who must have freedom, for all the pilgrims from all the lost places who are hurtling through the darkness, toward home.” – Ronald Reagan, 1989.

    • Outlier says:

      The quote of Washington was taken from a 1983 address to the Members of the Volunteer Association of Ireland. It’s not likely there were any members of the Association that were non-White. probably most were Christian.

      Later, the Naturalization Act of 1790, passed during Washington’s presidency which limited citizenship to free Whites.

      The Naturalization Act may have passed after Washington vetoed it. But during his term it was subsequently amended to lengthen the time a resident need to qualify for citizenship which was still limited to free Whites.

    • Outlier says:

      Prior to independence, immigration/naturalization in the colonies was governed by the Plantation Act of 1740. This act opened naturalization to any PROTESTANT alien residing in any of their American colonies for seven years. The act required making specific declarations concerning royal allegiance and succession, profession of the CHRISTIAN faith (with some exceptions), and the payment of two shillings.

      I suspect that the obstructions to naturalization cited in the Declaration of Independence resulted from the increasing restrictions on colonial trade since most immigrants probably traveled on ships that also carried cargo. The obstruction may have been inadvertent. On the other hand, Parliament may have recognized that it was counterproductive to further populate troublesome colonies. Population pressures were already leading to increasing colonial demands to settle on Indian lands west of the Appalachians.

      Whatever the reason, it’s clear that the founders were not seeking to create a multicultural society. The Naturalization Act of 1790, passed during the Washington presidency is largely based on the Plantation Act of 1740.

      The Reagan quote was actually written by speechwriter Peggy Noonan for Reagan’s 1989 farewell address. Recently, Ms. Noonan has called for a pause in legal immigration and a wall to restrict illegal immigration.

      http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB118012616985015040?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB118012616985015040.html

    • Outlier says:

      “Look, a pretend historian AND climate scientist.”

      John, I don’t claim to be either an historian or climate scientist. I cited facts, used a logical argument and presented a conclusion. I pointed out where I was speculating. It should be a simple matter to refute what I presented without resorting to sarcasm or name-calling.

      • John Warren John Warren says:

        You didn’t cite facts, you make up arguments based on your own twisted logic and lack of knowledge and experience, and then pass them off as facts.

        You’re a white supremacist – we get it. Go somewhere else and troll.

  16. Charlie S says:

    Paul K says: “This Park has been here how long? perhaps they are just not that interested.”

    Maybe Paul is onto something here.Throughout these discussions on diversity in the Adirondacks the above comment is the one that comes closest to my thoughts on the matter. Maybe it’s a cultural thing! Maybe the Vietnamese and the Spanish and whomever of whatever nationality have no desire to experience the wild Adirondacks like many of us here do. Maybe it has something to do with beliefs and traditions.Or habits. Maybe a television in closed quarters is all some people need,or a radio with nonstop sports streaming through.Maybe it has something to do with their religion.Maybe mortar and bricks and noise and the smell of automobile exhaust in the air suits some people just fine,including other ethnic groups. Maybe other cultures don’t value the wilderness experience like many of us Caucasian americans do.

  17. Charlie S says:

    Nothing surprises me anymore! Explain Paul.

    • Paul says:

      “Maybe other cultures don’t value the wilderness experience like many of us Caucasian americans do.” This seems like a pretty racist comment? You don’t seem like that sort of a guy from your other comments. If your point here (like others have made) is that these “other cultures” don’t have the opportunity to experience things like Wilderness and therefore do not have the same appreciation for Wilderness that “caucasian americans” do then I think I understand. But on face this looks like something else.

  18. Charlie S says:

    No matter what word/s I would have chosen to get my point across Paul it would have sounded racist to you,and some others,i’m sure. On the face we see what we want to see.

    I suppose it would have sounded more appropriate had I said “Maybe other cultures don’t value the wilderness experience like many of us persons of European descent who have light skin” hey Paul? Even that sounds racist don’t it?

    I thought Caucasian was more appropriate.If you look close you’ll see that ‘whites’ generally are the most frequently seen visitors and/or inhabitants in the Adirondacks. (Whites! Even that sounds racist. We’re so insecure aren’t we?) It’s what I see not that I cover every acre every single day,but my eyesight is pretty good yet. Is that not what this thread has been about? The inclusiveness of diversity not just… how do I frame this so that I don’t come off racist… us anglo Americans.

    Racism is an ugly thing Paul.I’d like to think of myself as more beautiful than that…. I am.

    • Paul says:

      So why do you think it is that these folks are the most frequently seen visitors and inhabitants (I certainly agree with that it is a fact)? You don’t think it is because of their race? For example non-caucasians inhabit some of the wildest places on earth. Many of which I would argue (parts or Alaska and Canada as examples) are far more wild than our favorite spots in the Adirondacks.

  19. Charlie S says:

    Read my first post Paul. Is why I think but I do not know.I’m just a wayfaring pilgrim being observant and curious and full of questions as I pass through this thing we call life.

  20. Todd Jameson says:

    Diversity, euphemistically speaking, brings crime.