Thursday, December 14, 2017

Katie Wilson: Senate Tax Plan Reaction

US Capitol at dusk 2013Last Saturday I woke up to an overwhelming sense of dread and sadness over the state of our government that I hadn’t felt since about this time last year.

In the dark of night the Senate voted to take away health care from 13 million people and increase the national debt by $1 trillion. They voted to further undermine the middle class and wage war on the poor. They also voted to give establishment donors a big Christmas present.

We knew this bill was really just a donor reimbursement plan. In fact, Senator Graham told us so, himself. But it’s so much worse, this bill is an assault on working people and families. This bill is an attack on our economy and the resources we leave for our children.

Financing for renewable energy projects could come to a grinding halt (and retroactively punish investors) under a provision known as BEAT. Drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge has been leveraged to enact massive tax cuts for wealthy GOP donors. Cancer treatment across the country is threatened and the stage is set for looting of Social Security and Medicare in order to combat the debt.

I’m not anti-business or anti-profit, I’m anti-profiteering. And that’s what this plan is; shameless profiteering at the expense of working families – including us, right here in NY-21. The BEAT provision alone would keep billions of dollars in renewable energy investment from flowing into our district over the next 5-10 years. This isn’t about protecting the environment or having a strong economy. This is about smart investments and sustained returns, this is about our future and our children’s future.

If the GOP establishment wanted to be fiscally responsible and create more jobs they would invest in the outdoor recreation industry – an industry that supports more jobs than oil, natural gas and mining combined, and that Americans spend more money on ($646 billion annually) than pharmaceuticals, electronics or automobiles.

It’s time to put ideological differences aside and get back to helping people. And it starts with diversity in Congress – electing people who truly represent the many and varied interests across our country. I’m willing to bet progress can be made if we send more people to Washington who live the policies being created in Congress, as opposed to those who can only have a theoretical or academic discussion about them.

Our current reality is a product of partisan politics, fueled by money and re-election campaigns. Instead of sharing ideas in order to create legislation that works for Americans, politicians speak in empty platitudes and hide behind ideology. They work largely to please the big campaign contributors keeping them in office at the expense of working families. We see this problem on both sides of the isle and it leaves the interests of the American people second to a small group of wealthy donors, reinforcing wealth and income inequality. This is not only wrong, it’s unpatriotic and it’s time to stand up and fight back.

Photo: US Capitol at dusk (2013) courtesy Wikimedia user Martin Falbisoner CC BY-SA 3.0

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Katie Wilson is an outspoken small business owner, entrepreneur and single mother born and raised in the North Country. Her family has been part of the local fabric since the Civil War and she often denies relation to her father, Joe-Pete Wilson. She currently lives in Keene with her two beautiful children and is currently running for Congress to represent the people of NY-21.


83 Responses

  1. ben says:

    How does it take health care away from 13 million people? If you were so worried about the debit, where were you 8 years ago, when your king Obama added 10 trillion in just 8 years

    • Boreas says:


      Seriously? You can’t blame Obama for all of that $10T. It cost a lot of money to recover from the Bush debacle – a near collapse of the economy – or did you forget about that? All he did was sign the check that Dubya and wrote. Running up any debt while giving billionaires handouts and planning massive infrastructure spending is simply idiotic. And at this point – until Trump signs it – only Congress is to blame. I can’t imagine a responsible President signing it. If you want to reduce the deficit you have to build the middle class back by putting money in THEIR pockets, not the Gilded Class.

      • ben says:

        there ya go, it’s all Bushes fault. Pull you face away from obama’s ass kissing for just a minute & take a breath. King obama was the man in charge for 8 years & the 10 trillion happened on his watch!

        • Boreas says:


          I am glad you agree that Bush is responsible for at least some of the debt he left us! When you want to have a civilized conversation rather than a rant, let me know. Otherwise, enjoy your day!

          • ben says:

            Every President from the beginning right up thru President Bush helped create the first 10 trillion in debit, Obama did the last 10 trillion all by his little old lonesome self. Took over 200o years to get that first 10 trillion, Obama did the last 10 TRILLION IN ONLY 8 YEARS. And you never did answer my original question on this post, how are 13 million people going to loose their health care from this tax bill! Bet you haven’t got a answer or a clue!

      • JohnL says:

        A good leader takes the situation they inherit (deficit in this case) and makes it better. BHO didn’t do that. He made it worse, much worse ($10T) . And, his (Un)Affordable Care Act made medical insurance much worse also, if that is possible. That Congress people don’t even have to use the same insurance as the rest of us is testament to the 100% Democratic vote that passed it. They could easily have added this to ‘their’ bill.
        The present tax bill DOES put more money back in the middle class pockets. If some money also goes into the ‘Gilded Class’ pockets, just remember, they’re the ones creating jobs for you and me. Well, you maybe, I’m retired. FYI, I encouraged my Representative to vote Yes on the tax bill even though removing some or all of the deductibilty of NY State taxes could cost me more. I blame this situation on the high taxes of NY, not on the new tax bill. That’s it. Merry Christmas All. JohnL out.

        • Glenn A. says:

          John, President Obama’s primary inheritance wasn’t a deficit, it was near-total economic collapse brought about by lax regulation of the banking industry. You only have to look to the Great Depression to remember what is required when an economy collapses. It’s spending. Amazingly, there are still some out there who harshly critique Roosevelt’s programs without the benefit of historical perspective. The net result of governmental spending during collapse is to slowly bring the economy back. The net results of increasing governmental spending during a recovery include widespread “overheating” of the economy, increasing interest rates, and increasing economic disparity, to name a few of the more palatable outcomes. This is where we are today. This is where we were in the early 20s and Obama’s years avoided what happened in the late 20s and into the early 40s. I’m sitting next to a pool right now (on a brief vacation). Over the course of five days, I have not fallen in and drowned, but I don’t give much thought to that. Were I to bump my head and fall in, I’d sure as hell be thinking about how desperate my situation could become. The Obama administration kept us from falling all the way in. It’s easy to miss that fact. The current “administration’s” policies will throw us to the bottom headfirst. That, we’ll notice.

    • Bill Quinlivan says:

      Nothing learned in the last 11 months??

  2. Bill Quinlivan says:

    Katie, I totally agree with everything you have said here. I look forward to supporting your election to NY-21. It will be good for the constituents in this district to have someone from the real blue line world representing their best interests. I only hope that they have learned to vote in a way that truly supports the same.

  3. Scott says:

    I do not like this tax cut plan either. Please note that a tax cut cannot cause or increase deficits, spending too much causes deficits. Our government spends too much.

    • Boreas says:

      “Our government spends too much.”

      It spends more than it taxes – hence deficits. Anyone remember the last president who actually balanced a budget – at least on paper? I do.

      It isn’t rocket science folks. Either we cut back on military, Medicare, and SS spending, or begin taxing the individuals and corporations who are expanding their fortunes at other’s expense. The rich are getting richer at the expense of the middle class who are becoming endangered species.

      The Construction Fairy isn’t going to wave a wand and renew our crumbling infrastructure. That is going to require taxation at levels we haven’t seen for generations. Corporations need those roads and bridges to make money. They need to pay their fair share for helping to restore those roads and bridges. I feel the Corporate tax rate was lowered too much in this plan given the future expenses needed for infrastructure rebuilding.

      This is a pivotal moment that will illustrate how important our economy and our debt are to us. Rather than ramming a “tax reform” plan through this year simply to fluff our president’s already inflated ego (kicking the can down the road), why not use some of that energy and ego, take our time, and do the RIGHT thing in a bi-partisan fashion? The GOP isn’t the only party capable of repealing or undoing legislation.

      • ben says:

        rather than hand jam a health care plan thru, oh wait that’s what democraps did 9 years ago. What is a fair share? Oh wait you don’t pay your fair share I bet so let’s start there.

        • Balian the Cat says:

          Ben – maybe you should lie down?

          • Holly says:

            LOL! It’s time lighten up and or be alarmed. I guess I can only suggest the same. Ben, lie down.Close your eyes. Ask God and your Guardian Angels to assist you in dealing with the world we are in. All of us. We are in this together. Why be hateful? No kidding!!!!! It works!!!


      • Glenn A. says:

        Well said. Couldn’t agree more.

  4. Balian the Cat says:

    Was the ANWAR component put in their to ensure Murkowskis vote? A lot of good people have fought off efforts to drill there for a long time – it seems sadly inevitable that this bill would be the vehicle for an action so destructive that only 2017 GOP policy could turn it into a legislative subtlety.

  5. Brian Joseph says:

    I can’t stand the lies about people “losing” health insurance like something is being stolen from them. Jeesh, if they don’t want to buy it, it’s their choice!

    • Boreas says:


      People who are uninsured drive up costs and premiums for people who DO purchase insurance. That is a fact, not a lie. As I recall, the mandatory purchase clause was introduced into the ACA by conservatives as a way to keep costs down. It is the only real way to keep premiums down – maximize the number of insured people paying premiums. But I guess the mantra now is if you can’t repeal the ACA, make sure it will fail, then blame it on the Democrats. Won’t that leave many of us in a rosy spot?

      • ben says:

        Liberal democraps own Obama care & the individual mandate, not Conservatives! The individual mandate has nothing to do with weather a person has insurance or not. The mandate states, if you don’t buy insurance, you pay a penalty, still means you don’t have insurance, you just paid a penalty for NOT BUYING INSURANCE! So now in the new tax bill, if I DON’T WANT TO BUY INSURANCE, there is no PENALTY! Doesn’t mean I lost my insurance, I NEVER HAD IT TO BEGIN WITH!!!!!
        Weather Obama care stands or falls it’s democraps fault for creating a BAD bill to begin with.

      • Brian Joseph says:

        She said “the Senate voted to take away health care from 13 million people” which is a lie.

        The estimate is 13 million will choose to drop their coverage; and sure, there will likely be a ripple effect…..but she and other continue to state this as if 13 million will have it snatched away from them. And that is a total lie.

    • Glenn A. says:

      Yup. Dying from illnesses cured over the last three centuries is most *definitely* the right of every person in a representative democracy.

  6. Ed Zahniser says:

    Amen, you go girl! This is Plutocracy marrying Kleptocracy.

  7. Todd Eastman says:

    I didn’t know Fox News had people posting here…

    … at least they are consistent…

    … at being assertively wrong?

    • Brian Joseph says:

      Todd, enjoy your tax cut. Odds are extremely high you will have one. If that is a problem for you, just send in extra money to the Treasury Department.

      • John Warren says:

        You’ve already read and analyzed the 1,000 page bill released last night? You must be amazing.

        • Boreas says:

          Good point John – the “simplified” tax plan.

        • Brian Joseph says:

          There are tax calculators online already with the latest info incorporated. And plenty of articles running thru various scenarios and how the tax plan will affect people at various income levels. Try to keep up.

  8. ben says:

    Still haven’t seen a democrat on here state how this tax bill takes away health care from 13 million Americans? Or how tax cuts for middle Americans is bad! Unlike Obama care which did hurt the middle class & did force people to loose their health insurance!

    • Glenn A. says:

      Individual mandates drive down the cost of insurance. It’s simple demand-side economics. Economies of scale. Get rid of the individual mandate, prices rise, and 13 million people are no longer able to afford inflated healthcare costs. Decreasing Medicaid will also leave people without coverage. Tax cuts for middle class Americans are great. Tax cut are both more socially and economically viable when (a) They’re distributed equitably and not skewed toward corporate tax rates and toward individuals in the upper 11%. (b) They’re better when they’re not offset by things like the inability to claim State/Local taxes, increased healthcare spending, increased State/Local taxes (levied to offset Federal dollars) (c) They’re best when they don’t add to the Federal deficit, cut social programs that will be needed to offset the coming recession, or are applied on a temporary bases for the sake of political expediency. I agree with you on the fact that some people were “forced” to lose their health insurance. Statistically speaking, however, that’s crap. Millions more were able to finally afford health insurance. Rather than slowly tear down Obamacare, the Republicans should have worked to make any system more equitable, affordable, and lasting. Nope. It was about donors and vengeance.

  9. Charlie S says:

    Boreas says: “Either we cut back on military, Medicare, and SS spending, or begin taxing the individuals and corporations who are expanding their fortunes at other’s expense.”

    Cut back on Social Security Boreas? That will be the only safety net many people will have once they retire…if they live to see retirement.

    • Boreas says:


      I agree. But those are the big three continuing expenditures we have. Congress won’t touch defense, so what are we left with to balance the budget next year? Cutting smaller expenditures doesn’t make much of a hit in budgets – not that congress won’t try. What does that leave? I wouldn’t spend any extra money you may find in a paycheck quite yet.

      • Charlie S says:

        Do you really think by taking away more and more from the ‘little guy’ is going to make things better Boreas? You’re smarter than that. Take a look at what’s taking shape in Venezuela right now. When you take away from the average person it just doesn’t work in the long run. Yet we have these monsters in power who can give a rats ass about anything other than enriching themselves or their millionaire donors. Pitiful! We do nothing that even leans towards change…unless of course you think the billionaire in chief that we have now is what this country needs as many of his conformist sheep followers believe.

        • Boreas says:


          You are misunderstanding me. I am not advocating this – rather I am saying what the GOP-led congress will likely be trying to do to pay for this tax plan down the road. They aren’t going to cut military spending, so they will attempt to go after entitlements – the next biggest expense. Any mythical “trickle down” they hope for will be a long time coming, if at all. So in 2018 we need to let congress know that entitlements are off base by voting wisely in the mid-terms.

          • Paul says:

            Why wouldn’t you want to reform things like social security? People are living into their 80’s and 90’s even France is smart enough to make some practical changes that can keep the system going for many many more years than it has now.

            • Boreas says:


              I can’t argue with any responsible reform. But what would the partisan GOP version of SS or Medicare reform look like? This 500 page ‘simplified’ tax reform bill?

              • Paul says:

                Sorry your comment sounded as if you wanted to vote in people who wouldn’t even consider entitlement reform. It has to be addressed someday, or we can let it run out of money?

                On this bill we saw the usually disfunction in DC. The folks who came out opposed to it did it in such an over the top way (the sky will fall!) that it became clear right away that there would be no compromise no adult discussion. This is fueled by the type of rhetoric you see even here and in other social media places]. People like Nancy Pelosi on this one were not interested in suggesting reasonable changes they just wanted (and did) use it as a political platform, same thing that the GOP did over the ACA.

                Well it looks like it is a done deal I can assume that we can prepare ourselves for all the Armageddon that is predicated will come from this as some have claimed! I’m not going to get into my bunker just yet!

                • Holly says:

                  The simple fact is the US is “addicted to war”. If we weren’t in a perpetual war there would be plenty for everyone. Oh. But, that would mean the companies that manufacture the weapons for these wars……actually “the war” would no longer make tremendous amounts of money and investors would lose in that game. Last but not least, older white men would no longer be able to play war games.

                  • Boreas says:

                    I agree. Since WWII our economy and society has been structured around fighting and preventing wars – both real and imagined. We really aren’t that different from North Korea. Mega-spending on the military at the expense of societal and physical infrastructure. The difference is the dictator here is the military-industrial complex, not our government. The tail wags the dog, and the dog sends its pups into the line of fire.

                    • JohnL says:

                      Boreas. You’re honestly saying we really aren’t any different the NORTH KOREA??? Are our people starving? Are we threatening our neighbors with destruction. Do we have elections?
                      You obviously haven’t noticed that the world in general is an evil place and we need to defend ourselves and in some cases our friends, from that evil. THAT IS THE MAIN PURPOSE OF OUR CENTRAL GOVERNMENT. You know, the ‘all enemies foreign and domestic’ thing.
                      I understand that we all get a little carried away in our ‘discussions’ on this forum, but I’ll never be able to look at you the same way after this Korea comment, I’m sure you don’t care, but it is what it is.

                    • Paul says:

                      In the 2017 budget after you figure in mandatory spending the military accounts for 16% of the US budget. By far the largest expense in the US budget is for Medicare and Medicaid. How is that at the expense of societal infrastructure? You will see lots of misleading (intentionally) charts that show military spending at 50-60%.

                    • Holly says:

                      Glad someone can see this addiction thing. But, I believe the US has been at war since it’s inception. Starting with the natives……..and that war continues to this day. Standing Rock and beyond.

  10. Charlie S says:

    Boreas says: “ben,I am glad you agree that Bush is responsible for at least some of the debt he left us!”

    Some? Let us get real here Boreas. The Iraq War alone plus all of the direct and indirect consequences from that war will be costing us for generations to come. And that’s just talking about the paper end of it, ie money. What about all of the lives lost just to get to one man! Some estimates are up to a million Iraqis alone (most of them women and children) were killed and or maimed from our bombs and the events that followed due to american policies in that region. How about that whole area breaking up into the mess it is today since our great country america stirred up much of that terrorism that sprouted after our actions. And then you have these nitwits who go around raising flags shouting out how proud they are of this country and it makes you wonder….what the hay are they drinking?

    • Boreas says:


      I was giving ben the benefit of the doubt. Attaching blame where it is due is a thing of the past. LOOONNNGGG past! That’s politics. The voters will have to figure this stuff out for themselves, assuming they can get their hands on facts and learn how to filter out bu11sh!t.

      • Charlie S says:

        Thing of the past? To what do you imply? Our actions in the present, or past present, live-on indefinitely oftentimes Boreas to the detriment of a few or many……or ‘all’ maybe as luck or fate or destiny wills. Time will tell Boreas but in the meanwhile things are so plain to see yet it’s as if 90% of the population is wearing blinders as nothing changes just the same old same old as if we hate change or are indifferent or maybe all of the smiley faces and happiness because ignorance is bliss. I wish I had it in me to be numb! To just not care about much at all! But then again No!

        • Boreas says:

          I am not implying anything – I am stating outright that neither Democrats or Republicans ever assign their president the appropriate amount of blame for running up the debt. Nobody wants to own the responsibility.

  11. Charlie S says:

    Katie Wilson says: “Last Saturday I woke up to an overwhelming sense of dread and sadness over the state of our government.”

    Many of us woke up with this same sense sixteen years ago Katie.

  12. Charlie S says:

    Ben says: “Unlike Obama care which did hurt the middle class & did force people to lose their health insurance!”

    Excuse me for throwing one cent in here on this matter but if memory serves me correct clearly I recall the conservatives going against anything having to do with healthcare for all when Obama was initially trying to get something going before it became known as Obamascare. They outright rejected any plan he had on healthcare in this country (meanwhile they have the best healthcare in the world on the taxpayers dime.) Why would they do this? Partisan politics is why plus it is just in their nature to divide until they drop. No union between parties to get something going for healthcare in this country which was sorely needed, just outright rejection of anything the liberal (if that’s what he is) Obama threw out. Nobody seems to remember this.

    Then all of those years later as this country was coming up to another erection you could hear some of them ‘against-all-that’s-good-for-the-common-man-&-anything-else-alive’ conservatives saying they have a better plan and on and on all the lies spewing from their lips…and I got to thinking, “Well why didn’t they just get together with Obama and come up with a plan together?” If they would have we wouldn’t have had the ugly mess the politics behind the healthcare system is today. And they blame Obama for the mess and people who cannot think for themselves fall for it. There’s no hope for a society that is chock full of idiots.

    I would like to add that I am not an Obama fan. I am a fan of the underdog,of biota,of supernatural virtues,of good or kind offices,of the health of the soul…………..

    • Boreas says:


      Many voters only remember history via daily FOX ‘news’ revisions of it and radio celebrity rants.

  13. Charlie S says:

    Scott says: “Our government spends too much.”

    It’s not how much they spend as much as it should be on what they spend it on Scott. We have people, children, dying of starvation these moments yet look at where our priorities are, what we spend our money,or wish to spend it,on! Proud of what?

  14. ben says:

    And still no answer on how 13 million are going to loose health care because of a TAX BILL

    • Boreas says:


      Since you asked, this is how I understand it:

      1. The “individual Mandate” to buy insurance is being repealed with a senate rider in this bill. Every person who chooses not to get health insurance raises the premiums on everyone else. Many people can’t afford the additional premiums and will also bow out, raising premiums even more. A downward spiral in the number of insured individuals – the sure way to kill the ACA.

      2. Federal-to-state- to third-party healthcare reimbursements to offset the lack of premiums from the poor are also on the block. Since congress couldn’t repeal the ACA, nearly every significant rider the senate tacked on to the “tax” bill is designed to kill the ACA, which is going to result in people losing their healthcare. I believe the estimate is 13 million participants lost over 10 years – not immediately. It is just an estimate by the bipartisan board that estimates the impact of legislation & budget proposals. I forget their name right now – House Budget Committee?

      The ACA was a piece of legislation that took over a year of ugliness to hash out between lobbyists and congress. It wasn’t Obama’s bill, he just signed it. It was an example of how dysfunctional our government is. After passage, Democrats and Republicans realized it had problems from the beginning and would be a work in progress. But rather than helping to iron out the rough spots and improve upon it, the GOP trashed it for the remainder of Obama’s term – voting almost immediately to repeal it – and dozens of times over the years after that – yet never managing to do so. So if you can’t repeal it, don’t fund it. Unless the ACA is replaced with an affordable solution soon, THAT is how many people are going to lose healthcare. No, it isn’t being stolen from them, it is being priced beyond their ability to pay, which can be even more insidious.

      • JohnL says:

        “It wasn’t Obama’s bill. He just signed it.” You’re kidding, right. They (R’s) weren’t invited, and weren’t welcomed in the drafting of the bill because for that short period of time, D’s didn’t need them to pass it.Since you brought it up, why should the R’s help bail Obama and his bill out after it was found to be fatally flawed. I repeat. Why help make them (D’s) look good, after they wrote and rammed through a piece of crap bill. Why not let them be shown for what they are. Talk about not taking responsibility for ones’ actions.

        • Boreas says:

          Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Ds weren’t invited to this fiasco either. Will Trump take responsibility for the failings in this tax bill? Get real.

          What I meant was, the ACA wasn’t Obama’s idea of what the final plan should look like. He, and most liberals, wanted universal health care. Insurance companies (hence congress) didn’t want a single payer plan. The result was a flawed bill that insured many people for going on eight years now. The Republican congress had many years to improve upon it, but chose instead to simply repeal it without offering a single better alternative. Don’t blame Democrats for THAT Republican failure. I would put the blame for not improving the ACA squarely at the spiteful feet of Mitch McConnel

          • JohnL says:

            The bill has proven to be fatally flawed and to say that Mitch McConnell should have improved it is ludicrous. The fault is, and by rights, ought to be, on the people that passed it and then had the audacity to say “you have to pass the bill before you can see what’s in it.” How’d that statement work out for them.

            • Boreas says:

              “How’d that statement work out for them.”

              I would say pretty well. Millions of people are still signing up for the ACA 8 years on – despite the sign-up period this year being cut in half (now who was responsible for that I wonder?). It is still the law of the land. You should ask those people who need and use it how fatally flawed it is. Mitch McConnell rules the senate and he has never once tried to fix it, only repeal it. This is not to mention, congress has nothing to replace it with. If the GOP is so smart, come up with a better plan! And do it soon – it doesn’t look like you will have control of congress forever.

              • ben says:

                I don’t have to fix it. It’s going to fail on its own, then we can get to work on a much better plan. Even if democraps are in charge, it will still FAIL!!!!!

                Enjoy your tax cut & if you don’t care to get the tax cut, just send your additional tax money to the IRS. I’m sure they can spend it better than you.

      • Glenn A. says:

        Thank you, Boreas.

  15. Charlie S says:

    If it’s in the bill maybe you should read it to get the answer you seek. I don’t say that to be antagonistic ben but who really knows what’s in the bill as it is something like two miles long is it not? Who even reads never mind a bill that stretches over 10,000 feet when rolled out! I don’t believe anything anybody says on these matters but I do know that there’s always someone or some segment of this society that is on the losing end of the stick when it comes to bills getting passed by our millionaire lawmakers and generally when Tories are in control it’s most always the ‘little guy’ that loses out as history will prove and which I highly suspect will be the case this go-around also why would it be anything other than?

    • JohnL says:

      Charlie, are you sure the Tax Bill is 2 miles long (10,560 ft/126,720 inches). If the sheets of paper were 11″ tall, that would mean there were 11,520 pages to the bill. You might want to revise your ‘estimate’, i.e. don’t exaggerate.

      • Charlie S says:

        I was just waiting for you to come along and jab me on this JohnL. 11 feet tall may as well be 2 miles long when you consider most people wouldn’t,or cannot,even read much of any thing even if it were a centimeter tall. I’m revised.

  16. ben says:

    I’ll say it again, the writer of this story stated 13 million will loose their health insurance by Congress passing this bill? I want her or another democrat on here to say HOW!!! Don’t tell me to read the bill, I want a anti tax cut democrat or the writer of this story to answer the question. If they can!
    And as far as all the deficit or debit BS. obama is responsible for 10 trillion of it.

    • Boreas says:

      See above. I tried to keep it simple.

      • JohnL says:

        See my comment above. Simple didn’t work. Try harder.

        • Boreas says:


          I did my best, now it’s your turn to answer ben’s question. Perhaps you can come up with better numbers or a better explanation. But it should include how eliminating the individual mandate in the senate bill will not result in fewer insured individuals.

          The big question we should be asking is – why did this TAX bill require a rider to gut the ACA to pass the senate? Talk to the senate majority leader about that. He couldn’t repeal the ACA in seven years of trying, so he attached a rider to a GOP tax-cut-gasm that would force the ACA to fail. These closed-door shenanigans have little to do with Trump or Obama. Over both administrations, this is ALL on congress and the deep pockets pulling their strings.

          The presidents however DO own the ultimate responsibility whether to sign these resultant messes into law. I was disappointed when Obama signed the flawed ACA bill, and will again be disappointed if Trump signs this tax bill assuming it passes to his desk as-is. Little doubt that he will. But many of us would rather he be offered a pure tax-cut-gasm bill without the ACA killing rider attached.

          • ben says:

            How will NOT penalizing people for NOT buying a product cause the ACA to fail! If I pay the penalty I still wouldn’t have insurance to begin with, so not buying a product is my decision. If I don’t want health care, I SHOULDNOT be forced to buy it!

            • Boreas says:


              Because the ACA and any health care plan needs ‘insured lives’ to pay premiums which pay the claims. You can’t choose NOT to pay federal, state, SS, Medicare taxes, etc.. Paying these taxes is what funds the country. Health insurance is no different. There is a certain amount of cost associated with paying claims. This cost (plus a generous profit margin) sets the premiums we pay, divided by the number of people paying the premiums. Fewer healthy people paying the premiums increases the cost to people choosing insurance. At this point it isn’t whether someone WANTS to buy healthcare, it is also IF they can afford the premiums. This is the big dilemma. For every person who CHOOSES not to get healthcare, several more people now CAN’T afford healthcare. This is the basis of why the individual mandate was incorporated into the ACA, and I believe (but I could be wrong) it was the GOP who introduced this inclusion to the ACA in order to reduce the cost to government (taxpayers). Made sense at the time.

              No one WANTS to buy insurance. But who pays for the indigent uninsured when they walk into the ER? You and I do – with higher taxes and higher healthcare costs. This is why most industrial nations have switched to national or single-payer (Medicare for all) types of health plans. These plans cut out the costs associated with having third-party insurance companies as intermediates who add cost but not value, while maximizing the number of people paying into the system with taxes.

              • ben says:

                A; Republicans HAD NO PART in creating Obamacare!
                B: If you made health care affordable & something that the young WOULD want to buy, you wouldn’t have to FORCE them to buy a product the government has n o business forcing a person to buy.
                C: Single payer is a BS system. See England & what the government did to that little child this summer. They made the decisions on what medical care he could receive not the doctors or parents!

                Do I care weather or not you have Obamacare or weather you are a freeloader. NO I Don’t! I’ll just sit back & wait for the day, your bleeping party gets to run everything again & then they can dictate your life for you, because from everything I see you post on here, you need a lot of help to survive!

                I’ll take my tax cut & run & I have GREAT healthcare coverage & it’s not Obamacare! And it’s CHEAP & It covers all of me from head to toe!

                • Boreas says:

                  “…because from everything I see you post on here, you need a lot of help to survive!”.

                  Well aren’t you special! I make a modest living in healthcare, pay my taxes, and pay my healthcare premiums along with my employer. I don’t know where you came up with the above statement, but nevertheless, enjoy YOUR good fortune!! Many others aren’t so fortunate – I see them every day.

                  You and JohnL Have a nice holiday!

    • John Warren says:

      Ben, I just deleted your obnoxious comment. You will act like an adult in on this forum or you will be banned permanently. This will be your only warning.

      John Warren

  17. MOFYC says:

    Democrats and Republicans, both heavily funded by corporate donors, have been rigging the system in favor of those donors for decades. All the nihilistic Republicans in Congress and Trump are doing now is making that pillage more naked and overt by massive upping the scale of the looting.

    • JohnL says:

      Part of President Trumps appeal to me (and many others) was that he was not only targeting Hillary and the D’s in the election but also what he called the “Deep State”. I have to disagree with MOYFC in that President Trump is not ‘colluding’ with what MOYFC calls the ‘nihilistic’ Republicans in Congress. Quite the opposite, he’s been opposing them all along too. I’m no big fan of the way things were run before him (President Trump). That’s why I support him.

  18. ben says:

    well, the tax cut has passed the House & so goes the individual mandate for Obamacare. NO more of FORCING people to have to buy a product THEY DON’T WANT! Now if the Senate will just pass it, all will be well with the world. And if democrats don’t like it, screw you!

  19. Brian Joseph says:

    Even the liberals at the Joint Committee on Taxation are forecasting that the biggest percentage tax reductions in 2018 will go to those making between $20,000 and $50,000 per year. And the Joint Tax forecast admits that tax relief is coming for every income bracket.

  20. Maureen says:

    Excellent analysis. Glad you’re running.