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After a large 85-pound canid was shot by a hunter in Otsego County in December 2021, the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) announced that the animal was a coyote. Despite possessing wolf-like size and physical characteristics—and the hunter’s own belief that he had mistakenly shot a wolf—DEC claimed that a DNA analysis showed that the animal was just a large coyote and cited the DNA study in its press comments. Mike Lynch at the Adirondack Explorer reported in July 2022 that DEC had a DNA analysis that showed the Cooperstown wolf was “closely identified as an Eastern coyote, with a mix of coyote, wolf, and dog genetics.” WTEN News 10 in Albany reported the story with a quote from Lori Severino, a DEC spokesperson, saying “Initial DNA analysis conducted determined the wild canid to be most closely identified as an eastern coyote.”
Though requested to by environmental groups and the media, DEC refused to release its DNA study to the public. Protect the Adirondacks and other groups and media outlets were forced to request access to the study under the Freedom of Information Law. Although the Freedom of Information request was submitted in July 2022, DEC responded that the study would not be provided until October 2022 at the earliest. DEC never explained why it could not release this critical scientific data sooner.
In the meantime, two independent DNA tests were commissioned by Protect the Adirondacks and other organizations. The two independent DNA tests documented that the “coyote” was indeed a wolf, with a genetic makeup of approximately 98% wolf genes. (See the first DNA study here and the second DNA study here.) After these studies were released to the public, DEC finally conceded that the wolf was in fact a wolf. Remarkably, when DEC at long last released its own DNA test, the results showed that the “coyote” had a genetic composition that was majority wolf.
Though DEC was forced to concede that the animal was a wolf, the Department claimed that it was likely an escaped captive wolf and had tests performed to verify that claim. However, on March 13th, DEC announced in a Facebook postthat the wolf was indeed a wild wolf and not an escaped captive wolf. Here’s the DEC post:
DEC scientists use a variety of tools to study New York’s animals. The discovery of a wolf killed in Otsego County in December 2021 presented our experts with an interesting opportunity to advance their work.
DEC and the New York State Museum analyzed elements in the wolf’s hair, bone, and teeth and concluded the wolf was eating a wild diet.
Based on the principle ‘you are what you eat,’ the carbon and nitrogen isotopes found in an animal’s fur and bones can show the type of diet an animal has had throughout its life. Canines (doglike animals) raised in captivity often eat a diet consisting of commercial dog food or grain-fed livestock and have different isotope ratios than a canine eating a wild diet.
Although very rare, a few wolves have been documented in New York. Some of these animals were later determined to be escaped or intentionally released captive animals.
Gray wolves are protected under both the federal Endangered Species Act and New York’s endangered and threatened species regulations. [Click here to] see DEC’s issued guidance to hunters and trappers illustrating the differences between coyotes and wolves and to avoid harvesting large canines that may be wolves.
This has been a tortured episode for DEC and underscores how reluctant the Department is to acknowledge the presence of wild wolves in New York State. Indeed, although wolves are protected under both federal and New York State law, in 2019 DEC proposed eliminating all legal protections for wolves in the State even though at that time there had already been documented instances of wolves being killed in New York in 2001 and 2005.
It is a positive development that DEC has apparently turned a page and is now willing to provide more information to the public about wolves in the State. However, the Department needs to do more to educate hunters and trappers (and the general public) about the presence of wolves in the State and to assist them in identifying wolves from coyotes. In addition, because wolves can be mistaken for large coyotes, DEC should consider reforms to how it manages the State’s coyote population.
Some of the coyote management reforms that are needed to protect wolves include:
- The coyote hunting season should be reformed. Currently, it’s a 6-month season with 24 hour a day hunting, with no daily or seasonal bag limits. Hunters can kill as many coyotes as they please.
- As part of the coyote season reform, all wild canids taken in the state should be checked and tagged.
- Wild canids that are taken that have a weight greater than 50 pounds or that meet additional criteria established by the Department should be subjected to a DNA analysis. Tests that show a large canid is a wolf should be investigated to see if other wolves remain in the area where the animal was killed.
- Coyote hunting should be for a season of no longer than ninety days, and the hunting of coyotes by night should be prohibited. The Department should establish bag limits for coyotes and shall establish size limitations for the taking of coyotes.
- DEC should modify its hunting and trapping training curriculum to include educational information concerning the presence of wolves in the state, the legal protections for wolves, the checking and tagging requirements for wild canids, and how to distinguish a wolf from a coyote when a hunter or trapper is in the field.
- DEC needs to solicit information from the public about wolf sightings in New York State and investigate reported wolf sightings.
The next wolf that wanders into New York should be protected, not allowed to be accidentally killed.
Gray Wolf. Wikimedia Commons photo.
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First half of article: it’s crazy that the DEC was reluctant to say this was a wolf.
Second half of article: here’s six new things the DEC should do now that there’s a confirmed wolf. With no increase in budget dollars.
Gee I wonder why they were reluctant.
I dont think it was reluctance, it seems to just be an our right lie by the DEC. They did the tests and it concluded it was a wolf and the DEC decided to lie to us. That is the takeaway of this article. We have known wolfs are in the adirondacks for years. We dont need the govt to tell us that.
Just one more reason not to trust our govt. We gave them the chance to tell us the truth and again their arrogance guides them to “we know better”. Not, how do we serve the environment.
So, now we are to trust them to make the changes needed to protect the wolf and other species from contest killings. I think not.
NYSDEC sent samples to a lab that was incapable of doing the necessary analysis. NYSDEC knew this from the lab report. Yet, they used this inadequate analysis to claim the animal was a coyote. They didn’t know we also had samples from the animal which we also had analyzed. Our first sample went to Trent University which said it was a wolf. For good measure a sample was then sent to Princeton University which also said wolf. NYSDEC tried to refute that it was a wild wolf by doing a radìo-isotope analysis. That showed it was a wild wolf. The days of no wolves in the northeast are over.
Even the DEC admits that wolves and mt. Lions occasionally wander through the northeast. That doesn’t mean there is any kind of breeding population here.
How is your son doing?? Visit him much or is he out now??
Reluctant is incorrect characterization.. They out and out told a LIE! They had the facts and told us what was not true. They are a government agency and people need to be prosecuted. What they do when someone is not truthful when they harvest a deer or Bear out of season.
“They did the tests and it concluded it was a wolf and the DEC decided to lie to us.”
> Why would they lie? Why the reluctance to fess up? What would the DEC gain by such?
“DEC proposed eliminating all legal protections for wolves in the State….”
> It seems to me NY State does not like the idea of wolves under its jurisdiction. Why?
So Bauer’s expertise now includes wildlife management? Undoubtedly, the D.E.C. made mistakes in handling the latest wolf case, but for Bauer to start dictating absurd policies (size limits on coyotes??) to the D.E.C. biologists and wildlife management professionals is a bit of a reach. What’s next- changes to the bear hunting season to protect possible Sasquatches that roam into the state? The D.E.C. is making an effort to educate sportsmen and hopefully be more forthcoming with information in the future.
Sounds like someone has an axe to grind. The proposed changes seem reasonable to me. Certainly not “absurd”. The only absurdity here is how DEC handled the situation from the beginning.
One doesn’t need to be “expert” to see that the DEC may have dug itself into a hole. Where’s the “mistake” or even an acknowledgement of one from the NYDEC, or a commitment to being “more forthcoming with information in the future.”? Nada. Or, maybe I missed something?
Your inclusion of concerns about “dictating absurd policies” indicates you have no idea about the big picture or of how too many state wildlife “management” agencies operate.
Just wait until the DEC is forced to admit there are mountain lions living within the Blue Line…🙄
Lol, outside of it as well. I don’t think the cats are reading the map Todd.
I definitely agree with that. My wife and myself. Have seen at least 1 on rt 4 heading to fort Edward Ny. Another 1 in Cambridge ny was it the same animal I don’t know . But either way I don’t want to deal with it. In the woods on a family day hike. Especially now you can’t carry a gun. On state land.
You can carry a gun on state land. You are making stuff up.
With all these new laws our brilliant governor passed last year there are some limitations on carrying concealed on state land. Completely stupid
@john- if I am in the woods I am carrying concealed. No exceptions. Well I carry concealed everyday anyways but always in the woods
If you don’t like wild animals – why go out in nature at all?
Years ago, I called DEC to report a bobcat in the hundreds of acres of woods behind my house (in the Finger Lakes region). It had been seen. Every morning there was an overwhelming odor of cat urine; huge feline footprints in the mud; and every evening, around 9 pm, it made the rounds of its territory, growling at the neighbor’s fenced-in dog.
DEC said, “You can’t have a bobcat.” Not like I was asking for permission to possess one. They were just telling me it was impossible.
The dec knows there are bobcats in the finger lakes. Why would they have a management plan and allow hunting for them? Just look at their website. A lot of these comments are simply false information
This is an example of why people don’t trust “their” government.
We’re lied to constantly, even at this very basic regional level.
It’s part of the reason people believe absurd conspiracy theories — lots of people don’t have a very good education but are not stupid — they know their “leaders” — who often view themselves as our keepers — are lying to them.
The result is that people can’t agree any more on the facts, and wild ideas proliferate.
Gray wolves and coyotes shared a common ancestor about 2 million years ago, and their mitochondrial DNA differs by about 4 percent. Gee, maybe the first analysis was just an error, not some conspiracy to with hold the information from the public. nor were they “forced” to concede the animal was a wolf. Next up, out lawing snow to do away with those pesky snowmobiles once and for all.
That is exactly what the article says, The Dec conspired to keep the truth from the public until Protect the Adirondacks forced their hand. What else can you conclude from this article or the facts. I followed this from the beginning and I came to the same conclusion.
The DEC could have got out in front of this along time ago and said they made a mistake and corrected it but decided to ignore it hoping it would go away. They were mistaken.
Bill,
DEC refused to release its initial report from East Stroudsburg University. They stated unequivocally it was an E. coyote based on one study. In reading the finally released study, it could be argued the results were confusing at best – warranting at least another study from a different organization before final determination.
If mistakes were made at DEC, the doubling-down on their preferred narrative without further testing should be disturbing. Subsequent analysis bore this out.
Again, it isn’t that they made a mistake – anyone can make a mistake. But the optics of cloaking the initial study and DEC reluctance to admit any ambiguity with an 80 pound “E. Coyote” certainly appears to be related to an agenda. We can only speculate what that agenda is and its reasoning. Again, the lack of transparency within the agency is troubling.
“We can only speculate what that agenda is and its reasoning” So what big conspiracy is the DEC hatching for not releasing the canines DNA as wolf. That there are not wolves in the state?
Paragraph from DEC : “The New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) today confirmed an animal taken by a hunter in Cherry Valley, Otsego County, during the 2021 coyote hunting season was a wolf. As part of DEC’s methodical, scientific assessment to ensure the accuracy of the species identification of the animal taken by the licensed hunter, DEC’s review of DNA test results returned this week allowed for a final determination that this animal was a wolf.
After initial DNA analysis completed this summer determined the wild canid to be most closely identified as an Eastern coyote, DNA submitted voluntarily by the hunter was sent for further analysis to Dr. Bridgett vonHoldt, Associate Professor of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at Princeton University as part of a joint research effort by multiple parties. DEC experts reviewed the vonHoldt DNA test results on Sept. 21 and determined the species is likely a male wolf. DEC is also evaluating additional steps to determine whether further research is needed.
I guess this isn’t “transparent” enough. Much to do about nothing.
Yeah. Let’s get rid of something that is a multi million dollar tourist attraction for the state. There are towns in the Adirondacks that wouldn’t survive if it wasn’t for snowmobiling. It’s not going anywhere and it shouldn’t.
Yeah let’s get rid of a multi million dollar tourist attraction for the state. Not a good idea. There are towns in the Adirondacks that wouldn’t be able to survive without snowmobile tourism during the winter
Time for hunting to be abolished to the dustbins of history, right alongside slavery!
Hunting a natural and sustainable thing the other an abomination? What do you want to get rid of next. Growing plants to eat?
Seriously?? Do away with hunting?? Keep leaning left
Interesting to consider our relationship with canids. If you call them domestic dogs we love them and spend billions on their care. Call them wolves and some put them up on a sacred pedestal. If they are labeled coyotes they might as well be born with a target painted on them, ripe for slaughter.
On my farm coyotes have been a welcome addition. They keep my fields free of woodchucks whose mounds and holes can damage equipment and they also keep other small rodents in check. Their vocalizations are fascinating and I enjoy observing them as they go about their lives.
We use words like ‘harvest’ and ‘sportsmen’ to hide from reality. Coyotes are hunted by being cornered by packs of radio collared dogs. Once the dogs have circled their prey the ‘hunter’ sets down his beverage of choice, gets out of his warm truck and proceeds to shot the animal at close range. Is this sport or just brutal, wanton blood lust? This is all done with no regard to landowners, as if this killing mission is so important that property rights don’t apply. Maybe, rather than splitting hairs over whether something is a coyote or a wolf, we should be thinking more about what it is to be human and humane.
Well put.
Yep
Not all people hunt coyotes with dogs I call them at night and have a high respect for the animal
I agree Michael. Almost NOBODY hunts them the way he describes. And yes, like you, most hunters have a high respect for the animals they hunt. More respect, I might add, than treating a noble animal like a dog, like a human baby.
“On my farm coyotes have been a welcome addition. They keep my fields free of woodchucks whose mounds and holes can damage equipment…”
> If you had just a wee bit of energy in you to do the ‘right’ thing wash wild, instead of either shooting the chucks (which you did not admit to, but which many people do), or whatever your preference to do away with them is, because you deem them a nuisance, you’d take some long sticks and paint the tops of them red so as to recognize them; then bang them into the ground near those dreaded woodchuck holes so that there’d be no worries about breaking an ankle, or your farm equipment falling into one of their holes and being damaged. You go around them! Very simple really!
Woodchucks are some of the most adorable animals; are not in the least the nuisance some claim them to be; and then along comes a seed which plants itself in some small human mind, and in turn sprouts a false image of them, and boom…. “let’s kill the woodchucks because we lack humanity,” or as you say…because of the wanton blood lust in us. Or I can be more polite and say….because we just don’t know any better! Which is it? I know of people who put dreaded traps on their showy lawns because they just will not have voles or moles or whatever the wild critter may be, because those voles or moles, or whatever, make holes. The end of the world holes in our purty lawns! Cosmetics before moles or voles! I know someone that shot every woodchuck he saw on his property. It would stick it’s head out of it’s hole and ‘boom,’ at once a bloody mess and incapacitated or dead….just for being the lovely creature it is. That ‘somebody’ finally sold and the woodchucks, and all other wild critters were safe at last.
I recall the dude who came up to his second home in Blue Mountain Lake and saw a harmless, beautiful, black bear going at apples on his tree. Bears like apples! He stuck his long gun out his window and shot that bear which caused it much pain before it eventually died from its wound. This was off-season by the way! Some people are just downright hideous, who leave much sorrow in their wake and will never come to know it. They go to their graves stiffer that the rigor mortis which finally overwhelms them!
Peter Bauer, THANK YOU and the groups involved in filing a FOI request regarding this unfortunate occurrence. It is disheartening to think the DEC may have intentionally withheld the DNA results from all interested stakeholders in N Y State. It’s interesting that collectively you all sensed something was amiss.
I am especially grateful for your recommendation of several overdue and vitally necessary reforms regarding coyote (and other species) “kill contests”. If these were addressed, there’d be fewer concerns about mistaking a wolf for a coyote. It’s incomprehensible that OUR NY DEC would turn its back on any species and allow them to be trashed like garbage. But this is just one wasteful result of “No bag limits”. The DEC must show some accountability and speak up about these shameful events.
Seems the coyote is treated a little bit better than an unwanted human fetus.
Let it be known, DEC, Protect the Adirondacks whatever…. wolves are here. May not be many but rest assure or not they are here. In fact in the town of Root in Nov. with my own eyes I couldn’t believe the size of this dog trotting along side the road on rt5… it was in fact a wolf (very rare as they are nocturnal hence why you don’t often see them). The deer population in NY is out of control including Southern Adks where I live and deer yard up, its a feeding ground. Wolfs, Coyote know where food is and will travel 100s of miles to get it. They have nothing to do but travel at night and eat. Northern canadian trappers which I know many that trap wolves have 100s of miles of trap lines to try to snare a single pack. These animals travel far and don’t have boundaries.
“These animals travel far and don’t have boundaries.”
Or much protection from centuries-old persecution. The fact that we continue to persecute ANY predator species while prey species are out of control is illogical and outmoded “management”.
Taking out packs of wolves is why ungulates are overpopulated.
Another case of a government entity not being transparent, can’t even trust DEC anymore. In Dutchess county at least, I’m so against shortening the season. The population needs to be culled immensely. Undisputably for the deer population and at over $20 per pheasant, for the upland hunter as well.
Haven’t you heard, Charlie? Lethal “management” doesn’t lower the number of coyotes. Temporarily perhaps, which no doubt would gratify people with that mindset. Scientifically proven and even the DEC will tell you. Why is it that with this “war on coyotes” and even heinous “contests” here in NY, their numbers only appear to increase?
Coyotes are NOT hurting the deer population in the least.
Sorry if the thousands of pheasants being released yearly aren’t robust enough to proliferate and thrive (not to mention the released species aren’t indigenous to NY) but that’s what happens when we humans can’t stop meddling in natural biodiversity, or blowing things away simply because they’re perceived to be at “sustainable” levels.
Thank you Peter, for the excellent article. The bottom line here is that NYSDEC does not want wolves in New York and they have been lying to the public about wolves for more than twenty years going at least as far back as the wolf killed in Day, New York in 2000. NYSDEC falsely claimed that that animal was a 50 pound coyote with 30 pounds of deer meat in its stomach. They later falsely claimed that it was a wolf/dog hybrid. I, not NYSDEC, reported the animal to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. The USFWS confiscated the pelt of the animal, did the DNA tests and determined that it was a wolf. The 2021 wolf was reported to me by a citizen who saw the shooter’s post on the internet. I contacted one of my colleagues in New York who went to the taxidermist processing the animal and collected samples for DNA analysis. We had a sample analyzed at Trent University in Ontario and they determined that the animal was a wolf. We had been told that employees at NYSDEC had also collected samples of the animal and told the shooter that he would not be prosecuted “because there are no wolves in New York.” We issued a press release notifying the public of Trent’s results-obviously much to the surprise of NYSDEC which didn’t know we also had tissue samples of the animal. Some days later, NYSDEC publicly disputed Trent’s results and said their own test showed that the animal was a coyote. The problem with their test results was that the lab doing the test was not capable of doing the complete testing/analysis required to determine the animal’s identity. This may be why NYSDEC was reluctant to release their test results. A third test was done at Princeton University which also confirmed that the animal was a wolf. NYSDEC kept up its game of denial by having a radio-isotope analysis done. They did this to plant seeds of doubt as to the origin of the animal. Not surprisingly, the analysis showed that the animal was a wild wolf. The recommendations for NYSDEC are the product of a multi-state organization called the Northeast Wolf Recovery Alliance (NEWRA) which has representatives from five northeast states and Canada. The days when the government can claim with a straight face that there are no wolves in the northeast-are over.
Awesome! Thanks for all your efforts in following through with the wolf analysis. It’s incumbent upon Basil Seggos to ensure that his employees realize their responsibility to to represent ALL in New York. And there are *many* of us. Clearly we’ve been quiet for far too long.
See the run for governor didn’t work out. How is your son doing?? Visit him much?? Can tell you are definitely left leaning. Probably want to ban all guns and hunting
I grew up in northern Franklin County N.Y. and remember in the mid 1960’s eight wolves crossed over on the ice and stayed. Saw them crossing on 11B several times just east of the Gale Road, saw them circling our beef cattle and once came over a hill and they were on a deer kill. That summer “Red Davies” the state trapper got all of them. Here in Colorado they are back and a program to restore is coming by law due to a ballot initiative. Don’t care as long as scientific management is used. I do like being in areas where we are not the king of the hill.
Like being in Wyoming grizzly country.
Thanks for pressing them. In reality it probably happens other times – but the hunters don’t reveal it the same way.
The ignorance of non-hunters (and anti-hunters) commenting on hunting regulations and wildlife management should be shocking, but alas, is not. I mean really… size limits on coyotes? So, catch and release the coyote dead if it’s undersized? You people. It’s as bad as men legislating women’s health care. My wolf, my coyote, my body, my choice. Most coyote hunters don’t hunt with dogs. They sit out in the frigidly cold winter nights and call to them, and truly immerse themselves in their environment. They don’t sit by a warm fire with their “sustainably harvested” mushroom tea and talk emotional nonsense.
There you go with “you people”, lol.
You present as if anyone who doesn’t carry a weapon with the purpose of stalking and killing wildlife isn’t capable of grasping any wildlife-related topic. If you only knew!
Seems like non-hunters have some pretty stereo typical ideas about hunters. When you come from rural areas especially ranch or farm families you have whole different outlook when coyotes, wolves, bears or lions are concerned.
“my my my my” is actually emotional nonsense. those who don’t recognize we all live on one planet and God gave us all things to manage properly are talking nonsense. Whether you are talking about killing fetuses or predators that God put in place to balance the species they prey on
Just curious what the authors credentials are to reel the DEC what the coyote seasons should be? Biologist?? I’m not sure how many people actually hunt coyotes anymore. Can’t be many where I live as the rabbit and grouse population has plummeted in the last 20 years while the coyote population has thrived.
https://www.protectadks.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Upstate-NYS-Gray-Wolf-DNA-Analysis.pdf
Two excerpts from the original report above: (sorry for the formatting changes)
“Summary of Results: DNA was successfully extracted from evidence item 1. Successful allele calls were made at 16/17 microsatellites for evidence item 1 (Table 1). Using a Bayesian clustering program STRUCTURE, the genomic profile of the specimen was compared to a set of domestic dogs, known wolves, and known coyotes. Evidence item 1 was identified as 65.2 percent match to wolf and 34.8 percent match to coyote (Table 2 and Figure 1). The maternal lineage of evidence item 1 was identified as 99.9 percent coyote, Canis latrans. The final species determination of evidence item 1 is coyote (Canis latrans).”
“Table 2: Q-values of association for evidence item 1 with three species clusters.
Item 1
Species Assignment
Q-Value
Cluster Percentage
Canis lupus familiaris (dog)
0.000
0.00% ± 0.6%
Canis latrans (coyote)
0.348
34.8% ± 0.6%
Canis lupus (gray wolf)
0.652
65.2% ± 0.6%
Final Species Determination: Coyote (Canis latrans)”
Read the results as you will. I am not well-versed in genetic testing, but my opinion differs from theirs – especially the interpretation of the “Q values”.
I guess my issue in this animal comes down to genotype vs. phenotype. An animal always has a particular genotype, but how these genes are expressed is its phenotype. E. Coyote are now widely accepted as coyote/wolf/dog hybrids in varying amounts of each. An 80 pound E. Coyote would certainly be out of the typical range of that hybrid. So, its “phenotype” was more wolf than coyote. An exception? Perhaps, as the genetic tests have shown.
As others have mentioned, hunters certainly would have some difficulty in differentiating what is in their sights, but not so much in their traps – assuming a coyote trap even holds the larger animal. More importantly, predator size and behavior also matter to prey. Typically, the larger the predator, the larger their preferred prey tends to be.
So, is DNA testing the ideal litmus test here? Even if this animal was conclusively E. Coyote by genotype, the more wolf-like phenotype should matter – to DEC, prey, and hunters/trappers. We are lucky the hunter was agreeable to further testing and such and didn’t just leave the dead animal in the woods simply for fear of prosecution. His actions indeed brought the conflict in management approaches to the fore. Question is, how many other larger animals have been left in the woods?
That’s a good question. How many hunters/ trappers will now hide such an exceptional animal to avoid this controversy.
What confuses me is how most hunters are intelligent conservationist but fail to see the importance of predators in the natural scheme of things.
I was deep into the woods in Saratoga County with a friend. We shot off 1-3 rounds from a hand gun on my friends property. It was about 1-2 pm. All of a sudden we heard a very loud howling/yowling the likes of which I have never heard before. The odd thing was that for the volume you’d have thought the animal was very large and in sight yet we saw nothing. It just didn’t sound like a coyote. I really feel it may have been a wolf.
I am dumb founded as to why it matters so much if the predator was a wolf, a coyote, a fox, or a man. Allow the natural selction of our wildlife to determine which predator or prey should live or die. I do understand we as humans have altered the whole ecosystem to the point of it being unbalanced and possible in the middle of a mass extinction. I still cant understand after all these years of ‘wildlife conservation’ our wildlife is not being conserved. We are losing the wild at an alarming rate and here we sit, sifting over the remains of a wolf cut down for what reason? Food? Meat? Survival? Balance? Display? or just cause we can. I believe in the latter. Was this wolf / coyote needed for sustanance? Or to boast to others, look what and how many I killed. I see the optics all over the world of persons posing with their kill. As I have stated before, the killing of any animal should be used for survival and not a photo opp.
Let me simplify this further. One errant wolf in 2000, examined by numerous labs and now another errant wolf last year near Cooperstown. Hardly an infestation ! In the field with only a second or so to determine what you are shooting at, wolves look a lot like coyotes. Only on a laboratory table can differences be readily observable. Wolves are endangered wilderness animals and I hope there are a lot living within the park but I doubt it. Like moose crossing signs ! Never saw one of those here either but I have hopes.There is no plot, no conspiracy, scientists disagree all the time, government agencies are complacent and this is obviously a topic of great interest to many Adirondack residents possibly because of the rarity. I would propose that If I can get a Big Mac 20 minutes from my house I am not living in a wilderness any more than when, stopped at a traffic light in Westport,Ct., a coyote crossed in front of my car across very busy Rt. 1, the Post Road. Safely, I might add as all the other motorists were as shocked as I.
Joan,
Sportsmen are expected to differentiate difficult animals in the field – antler-less deer from spike bucks, waterfowl and upland fowl species on the wing, and anything in their sights. These are also snap decisions made under the “threat” of a citation for a wrong identification. Sportsmen learn these skills through education and field experience. With every shot about to be taken in the wild comes the responsibility of correctly identifying the target before pulling the trigger. If the target is not certain, the sportsman should not pull the trigger.
The current generation of hunters have not had to worry about this identification quandary with canids because of species present over the last ~60 years. Oddly, when the larger E. Coyote first began to appear decades ago, they were OFTEN misidentified as wolves, because they were so much bigger than the W. Coyote! During those years, somehow the larger phenotype seemed much more obvious back then. Why? Today, why is a 25% larger animal with differing physical characteristics, behavior, and body language (often observed through a scope) considered so difficult to identify – or at least cast enough doubt as to not pull the trigger? It is nothing more than lack of specific education regarding canid identification and the culture of indiscriminate predator harassment.
It certainly isn’t helpful when DEC officially downplays or poo-poohs the existence of large predators. After all, ‘if there are none, why should I worry about ID with a canid in my sights/scope’? With long seasons, no bag limits, and no downside to a wrong decision, wild canids are under intense harassment. Both wolves and E. coyote, and potentially cougar are trying to survive in an area with abundant prey lacking larger, natural predators. DEC needs to wake up and help change the perception that medium and large predators are vermin that need to be eradicated. This is centuries-old thinking that has lead to many of our current wildlife imbalances – relying on bullets to keep from being overrun with prey species.
All many of us are asking is for DEC to change course, tackle the issue of education and protection responsibly, and bring us to a new, sustainable way of managing wildlife populations with less of a reliance on hunting/trapping. Keep these things a recreational sport, not a necessity. After all Nature has managed these things since life began.
Oh you touched on my hot button. ‘Hunting for sport’. Thats the key here as to why we cant conserve. Who ever came up with this idea in the first place? The wealthy in Europe? Its a practice out of touch with wildlife conservation. How can you conserve anything when you put it in the catagory of sport. ( Definition of Sport). (An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment:). The last word says it all, killing for entertainment.
This was excellent! Until the end. Can we deny that coyote hunting has already reached the unfortunate level of “recreational sport”? They are not needed for “sustenance” by any stretch of the imagination.
John M. Glower Thankyou !
What are you thanking him for??
While most of the points addressed may be valid, canids do pose a threat to small livestock. Wild canids are most active at night. I do oppose a shorter hunting season and am opposed to banning night hunting as these actions help to protect livestock and pets and help to control burgeoning coyote numbers.
I live within 5 miles of Cherry Valley NY and previously lived in Gilbertsville in the southern portion of Otsego county. We were well aware of large wolf like canids in Gilbertsville. I have always held with leaving local packs alone as long as they were not hunting my livestock. I have lost more livestock here near Cherry Valley in the past 7 years than I did in 30 plus years in Gilbertsville to canids. Here I have been seeing coyotes in close to the house and barns and hearing them frequently. The population is very healthy.
Here’s a crazy idea. Maybe as a rule, hunters should NOT shot at something unless they know with 100% accuracy EXACTLY what they are shooting at. Why even shoot a coyote or a wolf. What is wrong with you people. Does it make feel tough killing a defenseless animal.
coyote management reforms are absolute lunacy, proposed by morons who have no idea what’s going on. they have no idea how big the coyote problem is. I love animals and have been a wildlife conservationist all my life, and frankly, protecting wolves is a far second priority to the coyote problem. anyone who says different is just ignorant.
Saving them is all nice and cozy, but we were sitting around our campfire in a campground in OTSEGO county with a group of people and we had one let out a howl right behind our camper in 2021.
Google PREDATOR FRIENDLY RANCHING. Many are doing it quite successfully! The one requirement is you have to *want* to. Another key is to *rotate* the methods before coyote figures it out. Allowing a stable, “educated” coyote group to remain within your environs is your best defense against depredation.
The DEC is all about pleasing the hunters. Why are we killing coyotes? They keep the rodent and deer population down. And why in the hell are they allowing limitless bagging? Cow towing to the hunters once again.
Kowtow [ kau-tau ]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowtow
The DEC needs to be 100% transparent. I can not understand y they want to hide facts from us. We do pay for all of these agencies through our taxes.
Any time we in NY State call and tell them of a sightings of an animal they don’t believe us. We are treated as if we are stupid. We have lived here all of our lives we know what wild animals look like. The DEC never believes us but our neighbors do because they also have seen them.
The wealthy white folk ran the wolf off and now the wealthy white folk want the wolf back. Such odd people.
As if we hadn’t heard enough of this endless, for—-EVER droning on, boring subject, now you introduce race and class into it. Nice job FK.
It all good till they start killing. Everything. The deer in Washington County. Our hurting the grouse our no more. Ask your selfs what happens when meat eaters run out of meat. Our farm animals. dogs.cats. and then family members.
With such a dearth of deer your forest most be rebounding nicely, lucky is Washington County.
John,
When “meat eaters” run out of meat, they move on or starve. Simple as that. Been this way since Nature invented predation to keep prey populations in check. Same with prey species and their food supply. Predators do not simply eradicate their prey because they are forced to move on when prey becomes scarce enough that it no longer supports the predator population. This occurs long before the prey species is eradicated because it requires too much energy to find and kill prey. Predators move to an area of higher abundance, or they starve and/or can no longer reproduce successfully – allowing prey numbers to rebound – then the cycle continues.
In a properly balanced ecosystem, populations are dynamic – good/bad years, population spikes and subsequent crashes, food chain and environment fluctuations, etc.. A “balanced” ecosystem is not an ecosystem that is stagnant and never fluctuates, but rather a system that has its own natural buffers and remedies keeping the diversity relatively steady over millennia, not seasons or years. Many of these predator/prey cycles are a decade or more in length, and will change and adapt with changing environmental pressures. The large, glaring exception to Nature’s way is intervention by humans. At 7 billion and counting, we need to become more cognizant of our intended and unintended impacts to Natural systems.
It would take the entire state of New Jersey to bury the world population today in 3.5 by 8 foot plots. (28 square feet * 7 Billion) / 27,878,400 SqFt per SqMi
Joe Kozlina says: “I see the optics all over the world of persons posing with their kill. As I have stated before, the killing of any animal should be used for survival and not a photo opp.”
We’re changing with the times Joe! We are conformists striving to have our ‘Twitter’ or ‘Facebook’ or ‘whatever’ moments so that the world will know who we are; whether that be killers of defenseless animals, politicians firing up their base, or whatever our dysfunction is.
Boreas says: “In a properly balanced ecosystem….”
Where do you find this nowadays? Every ecosystem is up for grabs and/or being manipulated, so that humans, who are spilling-over in record numbers everywhere, can have their material way. The wild-kind don’t have a chance! News reports have been coming out over the years to verify this, we are losing species left and right, yet we continue on with our old ways of doing things. The wolves are coming here because of the changing environment everywhere, they are seeking safer havens, or havens full of abundance, or for the sustenance they need to survive. Eventually that’s going to change too!
Joe Kozlina says: “Definition of Sport. An activity involving physical exertion and skill..”
Physical exertion and skill! Shooting hogs, wolves, horses, cows….from helicopters. Us humans are pro at killing. We’ve figured out, and have employed, every means we can think of to kill the wild kind, from mice to elephants, and have been very successful at it!
What happens when wolfs start attacking livestock and or heaven forbid people this is not Montana or Utah NYS is to heavily populated
Google PREDATOR FRIENDLY RANCHING. Many are doing it quite successfully! The one requirement is you have to *want* to. Another key is to *rotate* the methods before coyote figures it out. Allowing a stable, “educated” coyote group to remain within your environs is your best defense against depredation.
Having gray wolves proliferate in New York State would be a disaster. We should learn from our mistakes in the past. Bringing gray wolves into areas out west like Montana has been very harmful to the shiraz moose, elk, deer populations… not too mention livestock and domestic dogs. It is very difficult to control gray wolf population given their size strength lack of predators and ability to cover and spread over large territories. Gray wolves in the Adirondacks would be devastating for deer and turkey populations that are already sparse in most areas to begin with. You should talk with people that span the majority of their lifetime and the woods not only hunting but conserving their environment and being good stewards of the land. These new proposed coyote regulations are ridiculous there are plenty of coyotes in New York we shouldn’t have gray wolves here anyways. Unchecked coyote population is also very harmful for turkeys, deer fawns and adult deer when we have heavy snowfalls. Obviously you don’t know much about coyotes or hunting coyotes your proposed regulations would make it very difficult to harvest coyotes. Talk to people that spend their lives in the woods managing animal populations especially out west or the UP in Michigan where they have already tried to introducing gray wolves with deleterious effects.
Coyotes only got to NY because the colonizers killed off the wolves. You do realize the wolves lived in NY for many centuries before the first Europeans showed up right? Deer didn’t go extinct. It was the colonizers who made many species go extinct – including the wolf in NY State.
Lastly – nobody has to bring wolves into NY. They are trying it themselves…. They just keep getting shot.
You and a few others on here make it sound like wolves are just running rampant around NYS. I’m in the woods every day during hunting season. I am in the woods almost every day throughout NY for my job the rest of the year. I have never seen a wolf. Coyotes yes. Some areas more others. I’m out saying there are not wolves but they are not running with huge numbers throughout the state. This guy shooting one in Cooperstown was rare.
Complete mischaracterization. Here are facts. Wolves have naturally moved back into California and Colorado. NY has much closer populations in Canada – than the ones who migrated to those states. That is wolf behavior. There have been 3 documented killed in NY in the past decade or so. You don’t think there were more?
Maybe there were more. Who knows. But I’m not ready to rewrite every hunting regulation for coyotes just because 3 wolves have been killed in NY in the last decade. Leave things like they are. If the wolves were meant to return to NY they will
The DEC refuses to admit there are Wolves and Mountain lions in the state. Is it because they were introduced to the state by the state??? I have personally seen two wolves on Tully Farms Rd. In southern Onodaga county, 3 years ago. I also watched a very large wolf for about 30 minutes in Preble, near Homer-Baltimore Rd about 10 years ago. I know they are here. I just don’t understand why the DEC denies the facts?
Seeing is believing,
Larry Hayes
Do not allow wolves anywhere near your property. We hunt in northern WI and they definitely wipe out the deer herd killing excessively. Until you’ve hunted in their territory, seen how they kill and have them up close while hunting, you really don’t know anything of how it changes the whole experience and environment in your hunt area. They definitely will reduce your deer herd.
What if the deer herd needs killing? They are terribly overpopulated and destroying ecosystems.
That is what hunting season is for. Coyotes do not kill the amount of deer people think they do. They would not be able to control the population and keep it in check.
Wow, the anti-hunters are out in force! Such barbarians us hunters. No regard for wildlife, just holding killing contests and photo ops. That is all we do, no really. Didn’t think you could figure it out but you got me. Don’t even get me started on trapping. Maybe if you come up with some silly regulations based on your emotions and values, (not mine) then we will just go away. No sense invoking science unless it involves climate change. The biologists employed by the State are not needed, just some folks in touch with their feelings. Yes, that was facetious on purpose. Truth is we are all different and have different values. You don’t hunt, I get it and am fine with that. I don’t crochet hats and don’t like wearing them but won’t propose regulations upon the way you make them. It is a big park there is room for everyone with different values. Could we just drink some chaga tea and eat some granola while we talk about this? We may have more in common than you think.
I haven’t read a large number actual anti-hunting comments. Don’t conflate anti-hunting comments with comments about what amounts to an outright harassment of larger predators (one half of the predator/prey balance), and the DEC’s apparent reluctance to address the problem. State resources belong to everyone. Why shouldn’t everyone get a say?
Hi Boreas,
I don’t believe I conflated anything. Like you, I am fairly astute at reading the comment section, there are numerous examples above. Now, what you see as harassment of large predators and state that it is a problem the DEC won’t address I see as regulated hunting, it has already been addressed. Really that simple for me. Could there be changes? Sure, but are they needed? I am not there yet, 3 wolves in 23 years is not a widespread problem. How many wolves have been passed up by coyote hunters that you never hear about? I agree everyone should have a say and I am open to all points of view. I would engage anyone in honest conversation on the subject, (I mentioned that above in a round about way). However the article and many of the comments above are not looking my or any hunter’s input.
If you are a non hunter you shouldn’t be trying to push new hunting regulations or seasons.
Rob,
I respectfully disagree. State resources – including wildlife – belong to all citizens, not just license holders. A license gives hunters/trappers the privilege to harvest certain State wildlife species, but it is up to State regulatory agencies to create and impose those regulations – not the licensees.
Would moose have made a comeback if they were unprotected? Turkey? These species were well-protected or at least managed throughout their recovery, as eventually they would be considered game. Why the difference of policy on large predator species?
Boreas…I think Hunters and Fisher people are a big reason we have the wildlife available to the citizens of NY State.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman%E2%80%93Robertson_Federal_Aid_in_Wildlife_Restoration_Act
Hunters, Non Hunters, Enviornmentalists, Conservationists I think would all agree our wildlife and wildlands belongs to the planet. None of us own it. The animals can’t be owned, thats why it is wild.
Now helping the Wild survive because we have destroyed habitat is something we all want to help with. This I believe is the discussion we are having. We all want clean water, clean air, healthy wildlife and lands for us and wildlife to survive. Its how we get there that is the focus. We all are responsible for the costs to carry this out. Be it taxes or licences or placing your land in a conservation easement. The end result is we want wildlife to flourish. It makes us feel good.
That is the connection we all have, seeing wildlife in the wild is a primal state of conscienceness. None of us want to see that go away.
The land that the wild lives on has been squeezed by us and now we have to realize it needs to be unsqueezed to allow the animals and trees to do their business uninterupted. “If that is possible”. With the population increasing everyday It will be close to impossible unless we address our proliferation.
As for the wolves and coyotes roaming the Adirondacks and beyond I think in time the wild will find a natural way of solving the balance issue. We as humans need to give it time and share the planet instead of controlling it. Patience and less progress into the Wild.
I don’t disagree, but my point is the resource still doesn’t BELONG to sportsmen. License fees go toward management of game species and habitat, and those fees then give sportsmen the unique privilege of harvesting fish/game. But the fish/game do not belong solely to sportsmen, and the resource is not managed by sportsmen – but by DEC and other agencies that are working for taxpayers, not just sportsmen. Game and non-game species are state/federal resources – not property. So all citizens need to have a say in how these resources are managed.
Non-hunters/Non-fishermen/Non-Trappers can thank their low taxes because hunters/fishermen/trappers pay much of the expense of managing wildlife that they would otherwise have to pay for in taxes. You’re welcome!
Hey Boreas, check out the Deer Management Plan DEC published in 2021 and you’ll see the public factor is now heavily considered in deer management; this includes everything from the fact that people like to watch deer to the number of deer/vehicle collisions. DEC makes deer management decisions, not hunters.
JohnL,
Respectfully, are you saying license fees are entirely altruistic? Amusing. Indeed a FRACTION of fees and taxes DOES go toward protection, management, and habitat access, etc.. But if NO licenses were required, would those actions still be funded sufficiently? And don’t forget taxpayers ALSO pay for those same protections and land acquisition. I doubt the amount my taxes are reduced by federal and state wildlife fees paid for by sportsmen would amount to a tank of gas. Let’s not blow it out of proportion.
Regulations came into effect when game was being systematically wiped out due to over-hunting/trapping/fishing and persecution. DEC, and subsequent regulations, licenses, etc., exist because of taxpayers, not in spite of them. So indeed, is it ever wise to put licensees fully in charge of their regulations?
Getting back to altruism. What about non-licensees that donate to wildlife and access funds? Individuals and many organizations work with state and federal agencies for habitat and wildlife protection and restoration. Why no shout-out for us? Why not a shout-out for people who contribute through license fees, sporting taxes, AND other sources that choose NOT to hunt? I have been buying federal Duck Stamps for decades. Never hunted ducks. I buy wildlife and habitat access stamps in NY and no longer hunt. I do that as part of my responsibility to contribute to my past hiking activity. Now I realize most people do not do this, but most of us realize fees/taxes from licenses and certain purchases alone won’t cover the immense bill! In fact, I would like to see hikers/paddlers/skiers pay more for their access. But that is even a bigger argument.
Wolves…
… a clear emblem of the culture wars.
Deep emotions on both sides, no simple solutions…
Yes William you nailed it. Who is afraid of the Big Bad Wolf ? Joe Blow, that’s who. We don’t need more rules and regulations. We need people who have sense. It used to be called common sense. Not so these days. Environmental regulations have crippled this great nation. And their not done yet. If farmers are regulated out of business where will you get your bread? Ask any trucker what his overhead is these days. Regulation run amuck will kill a lot, already has. Dumb dirt worshippers! This planet was created (designed) to feed us all! Who is against that ?hunting and fishing are making a BIG come back! Wild game is Way cheaper!l wolf and lion are tasty also. Save the planet ? No!
Coyote populations need to be managed – not eliminated – and hunting and trapping are the most effective means of doing so. The hunters and trappers I know who pursue these animals are not bloodthirsty rural dwellers of questionable character as some people commenting on here obviously judge them to be. These people sell the furs, even in today’s currently poor market, which at times is lucrative and likely will be again if the Ukraine crisis ever resolves. As for wolves, if they come here on their own as the moose has, then so be it. But let’s not make drastic changes to coyote management over the rare wandering in of a similar species.
Well another hot button topic I will comment on. TRAPPING. Any trap that holds and animal in unspeakable pain and misery thru the night is bloodthirsty in my mind. I have heard the howls of a coyote in this leghold trap cry all night long waiting for the trapper/hunter to arrive and do the hunting/trapping/sporting/ deed of taking the life of a helpless creature.
I had a friend, who was a trapper for many years. Still a good friend. One day he came to me and decided to stop trapping because he could not take the trauma he had been causing to his beloved wildlife. (I know, a real man would not have these feelings).He trapped, not for survival, but because he was conditioned to do so over the years. When he took the time to look deep into it he saw the cruelty of the task.
Take that time and reflect as to why you trap. And at what cost to you and the animal. If you can justfy your act and your family is not starving then I would consider that a blood thirsty act.
How about we even up the score and get back to sustainable hunting. For instance back to the recurve bow and not the compound. Back to just the flintlock and not the hightech killing machines and bullets we use today. Now that would be skill. That would be a hunter.
Joe K. says, “back to just the flintlock and not the hightech killing machines and bullets we use today. Now that would be skill. That would be a hunter.”
That’s about as realistic a thought as the people who say that deer should have guns. There’s a reason we have the seasons we do, especially in the Southern Zone, and that is to manage populations. I suggest anyone who questions the value of hunting and trapping study the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and how it applies to game and non-game species alike.
Now, let me reverse your logic: how about hikers ditch the cell-phones and GPS units and actually learn map and compass skills? That sure would lesson the burden on the Forest Rangers (and tax payers). Then they’d be “real” hikers. Admittedly, there’s plenty of hunters who should do the same thing.
That said, I enjoy shooting and hunting with recurves and own some vintage equipment. Although, as I age I’m finding the crossbow more interesting. As for muzzleloaders, I enjoy those seasons in the Adirondacks more than any, although I don’t own a flintlock. For the record, I’m not a trapper, but I understand and support trapping. Trappers are some of the most crafty woodsmen (and women) out there.
For hunters and non-hunters alike.
See the link within to view the docu on coyotes – AMERICAN BOLSHEVIK
https://www.einnews.com/pr_news/622820551/killing-coyotes-is-an-ineffective-management-tool-and-has-contributed-to-expansion-of-coyote-territory
When I see the names of the groups funding this study it’s obvious which message they wish to convey. Many studies in relation to predators, and their prey, are conducted by universities with no goal other than to obtain data. Some do focus on something specific, like urban areas or the impact on deer herds and fawn predation. Yes, coyotes can increase reproduction when preyed upon themselves, but in parallel, continued management and population control of that species through hunting and trapping can help to achieve population reduction goals. Obtainable as they are, however, they are only temporary and not long term. If there is food available, like deer, then the predator will return and that is the natural cycle of the predator and prey relationship. Rabbits and foxes are another example.
Hi Clem,
No idea who funded this educational documentary. Doesn’t much matter to me as long as the information is *accurate* and I believe that it is. Dr.Dan Flores ( among others including Dr.Jon Way) is considered one of the preeminent coyote experts in the US. What do you suppose his goal is? There have been a number of university-sponsored studies that I’ve read. To date, I’ve not seen any that recommend the all out assault on the animal that is taking place today.
An interesting takeaway from Dr. Flores which IMO negates the theory that coyotes need extensive human lethal intervention in limiting their numbers (which as you point out is only “temporary” anyway):
“ Coyotes are fission-fusion animals,” explains Dr. Flores in the film, meaning that they are one of only a few species that can function either within groups or as individuals. “Whenever they go into fission mode as a result of being persecuted, what they often end up doing is scattering across the landscape and colonizing new places. ”
So how are predator hunters and coyote trappers helping in the long run?
My final thought is that coyotes have NEVER been given the opportunity to limit their own numbers, either through their territorial dynamics or compensatory reproduction. That would require a temporary ban on widespread lethal “management” (the BIG TEST) and God knows that’s not likely to happen. On the other hand, proponents of killing coyotes en masse will never be able to prove their theory either. Therefore neither hypotheses is provable without the big test.
Again, I defer to university studies. Let’s see Cornell undertake this “big test” you refer to in a widespread area such as entire township both in the ADKs and in an agricultural/livestock area outside of it. And let’s see if someone is willing to be responsible for the consequences should it not work out, especially in the Ag area.
Coyotes are not as heavily hunted or trapped in many areas as some may think. There are only 10,000 trappers in NY compared to over a half-million hunters. And only a small percentage of those hunters engage in predator hunting.Those that do engage in these activities are pretty serious about it and may be doing just enough to stabilize populations.
I know this is getting out of the ADK’s (and this is a regional publication) but a better comparison – and possible eye to the future of what could happen with less coyote hunting – may be a look at black bear populations in southeastern NY, and New Jersey for that matter. DEC anticipates a real problem here if hunter harvest doesn’t increase in places like Putnam, Dutches and Westchester counties. Even if they could, there are many hunters (like me) who wouldn’t hunt here (who wants to eat a garbage-fed bear?) and opportunities are dwindling as development, or at least exurbia situations, increase. Bears in these locations are more and more getting the opportunity to limit their own numbers and I’m sure coyotes in such areas will too. The question is: are they?
Go further south. Coyotes have been living in The Bronx, NYC for 30 years. They are not hunted. Guess what… The most crowded place in the United States and most people have no clue they live and breed there. The only NYC coyotes that were “trapped” were a pack that resided at La Guardia airport.
As to wolves… Wolves are back in Europe now… The areas they live in Europe are often more crowded than upstate NY.
Coyotes are actually branching out and finding new territories, but they are good at this. There is a known breeding pair in a park in the Port Washington area on the north shore of Long Island, plus many local sightings, as well as sightings in Southhampton, L.I., plus a game camera sighting on Fire Island. They think the east end Coyotes possibly swam across from Fire Island, where there are multiple breeding pairs. It’ll be maybe 10 years and they will suddenly be finding that unattended small dogs and cats will be an easy meal. The local humans are in for some surprises. Seems the coyotes are doing very well in SE NY
Thank you, Ethan. Very good information. We have many coyotes in our area (Syracuse NY) also too many white tail deer. I don’t think enough is being done to limit deer overpopulation. I’m sure the coyotes will help that. They sure make alot of noise at night and road kills are cleaned up quickly.
As in western states the animal will be used as a bludgeoning tool by the environmental lobby to further the agenda.
Joe Kozlina says: “Hunters, Non Hunters, Environmentalists, Conservationists I think would all agree our wildlife and wildlands belongs to the planet. None of us own it. The animals can’t be owned……..”
> AKA………………this planet is not ours!
Joe Kozlina says: “We all want clean water, clean air, healthy wildlife and lands for us and wildlife to survive.”
Tis not true! Too many of us can give two hoots one way or the other Joe! Tell the same to the oil giants (giants without hearts!) Tell that to Vladimir Putin (or any war-monger for that matter) whose bombs are leaving behind a wasteland. I heard a report early-on regards the war in Ukraine, that there was a rare bird known only to those parts which hasn’t been seen since the bombs started raining down. Just think of all the unknown species which will never be known due to the sickness of the human animal! We ought to be ashamed of ourselves! If but we only had a conscience!
Joe Kozlina says: “I have heard the howls of a coyote in this leghold trap cry all night long waiting for the trapper/hunter to arrive and do the hunting/trapping/sporting/ deed of taking the life of a helpless creature.”
I’ve got one for you Joe. I’ve shared this already. My brother had a beautiful dog named Shep. Just all-around the most wonderful dog, loved children, had not the littlest amount of negative energy in it that dog, a sweetheart and two-halves. I’ll never forget that dog! Shep never came home one day which stumped my brother who, by the way, lived on a farm with a couple hundred acres and woods and State land all around it. My brother was stumped! He took walks into the woods on his property looking for Shep; looked and looked and nothing. Some time went on and one day my brother was out in his woods again when he came across Shep. She was hanging from a limb where some trespasser hunter had set up a snare and who never came back to it. Poor Shep! My brother described the scene, saw how Shep had struggled to get out of that noose. The stories are long and sad and endless, of the miseries thrust upon us by the humankind. It makes one wonder how much longer it will be before the nukes start falling from the skies to put us out of our miseries!
Joe Kozlina says: “How about we even up the score and get back to sustainable hunting. For instance back to the recurve bow and not the compound. Back to just the flintlock and not the hightech killing machines and bullets we use today”
Charlie Stehlin says: “It makes one wonder how much longer it will be before the nukes start falling from the skies”
I dunno Joe, Charlie is on to something here. If we hunters could simply buy small tactical nukes at Cabela’s we would be all in. This would end the needless suffering of the helpless animals and up kill percentage of most hunters. A clear win for both camps I say.
Jesus! Charlie,I was unaware snare traps were still allowed to be used. I am sure many snare and jaw traps have been the end for many household and farm animals. This is where the wildlife conservationists and DEP should be spending their time. Stopping the slaughter of our pets by trappers. I will ask the trappers on this site. (How many times do you incounter something else in your traps other than what you were trapping for)? I think i will hear silence because, I have a humane trap for catch and release on my farm and I have caught many animals other than what I was trying to catch. So the snare and claw traps are no different.
We talk about the pets the wolf and coyote will kill if allowed to roam free. No talk about the loss of childrens pets to the trappers.
Paul Small says: ” We don’t need more rules and regulations. We need people who have sense.”
This is a contradiction in terms! It’s like saying that deregulating banks, or environmental laws, or railroad corporations, is done by people who have sound judgment. History, including very recent history, continues to prove this to be a very false assumption.
True Charlie, if you assume business men with sense (conscience) would obey laws that are not enforced. Rail road has been run by ruthless criminals for a long time. We need to return to truth. That is what is missing, corporate greed will trample on the environment every time. Big money rules, too bad it says in God we trust on our currency. Most don’t! That’s the only thing that could fix these problems.
Jesus! Charlie,I was unaware snare traps were still allowed to be used.
> This was some decades back.
“I have a humane trap for catch and release on my farm.”
> This is very noble of you Joe. I use live traps to catch mice…they work. And if mice are a real problem I might switch to snap traps which is, by far, more humane than those sticky traps.
Historical Significance
Native American culture has long had a deep connection to the coyote, and its presence in the culture holds great spiritual significance. It is believed that the coyote has a special power that helps to bring luck and fortune to its people.
The coyote was a symbol of wisdom, strength, and bravery among many tribes across North America, and it was also seen as a guide that offered direction and guidance. Native Americans also believed that it was a symbol of hope and strength in difficult times, and that its presence would bring good luck.
Many Native American tribes had stories of the coyote, and it was often associated with powerful spiritual forces. Some tribes believed that the coyote was a messenger of the gods, and that it had the power to bring luck and fortune to those who encountered it. In some stories, the coyote was also seen as a trickster, offering guidance and wisdom in difficult times.
“We need to return to truth.”
Those people raising their voices (and their caps) shouting loudly “Make America Great Again” have me stumped Paul Small. Truth, science, and the dissemination of useful information and knowledge….these were the way of life 200 years ago in this country. They impressed it upon the population! All’s you have to do to come to this realization is go back and look at what was put out in the literature, and in their magazines and newspapers, back then. We’re slipping back into the dark ages compared to back then when they were trying to get away from the dark ages. Without truth, which that crowd (MAGA) seems to abhor, we’re done. Yet they bathe in lies, in un-reality, which surely lies in their lack of knowledge…..to put it mildly. Return to truth you say! How so when millions upon millions, for whatever their reasons, deny it?
Need to drag the MAGA into it?? Not every republican is MAGA. They are off there rockers. But the Democrats aren’t angels. Have you looked at all the policies they are looking to implement. This country is headed down the toilet thanks to Joey. Just look at NY under Democratic leadership
I do not aim to go political here but things immediately pop up, which are less political than they are reality, or truth, which I was bouncing off of in my comment. I don’t disagree with you on the democrats Rob, which I do not strive to minimalize, but I am convinced there is the lesser of the two evils which I can plainly see and hear as my vision and hearing are both still very much intact. My values surely differ from yours not that that is going to matter in the end game.
“Just look at NY under Democratic leadership.”
Look at what? Explain! What is so horrible about NY state which is not to be expected when we’re so far into these dark woods which has been sprouting unrestrained (not just here but everywhere) one election cycle into the next! Would it be any better under Tory leadership? And for who and what…. if so?
Values Rob! Some of us see well-being in material things; others of us see well-being in things which have real-meaning in life. How to decipher the two? I suppose one will never come to know the latter until they are stepped away from the former.
Troubles with NY. First we would be under Republican control if not for NYC. That population control all elections. Why should NYC dictate the rules of the ADK. Totally different lifestyles. Driver’s license to undocumented immigrants. They are here illegally, why are we not arresting them. Banning of gas furnaces. Wait until people start paying to hear there home with electric. They will be looking for other sources when they see how much electric is. Crazy gun laws which do nothing to stop crime. Glad they don’t impact me!!
Wind and solar power are great. But with that comes the people who want to save the planet but the birds fly into the windmills so we can’t have those. Can’t win on that one. Let’s just go back to getting everyone to work, without free handouts. Rebuild bridges, roads, inner cities as needed. Maybe I should just move up the ADK’s. Life seems so much simpler when I am up there.
Thanks Rob. You just said: “Let’s just go back to getting everyone to work, without free handouts. Rebuild bridges, roads, inner cities as needed”.
Sounds like you want to Make America Great Again!! If that’s what you really meant, I agree with you 100%. Welcome to the so-called MAGA crowd. Actually if you think about the slogan itself. What American could be against making America great again? Just askin’ someone to explain why you wouldn’t want us to be a better place.
Pretty sure 200 years ago they had no problem shooting coyotes and wolves. Just saying.
And there won’t be any problems shooting coyotes now either.
“Native American culture has long had a deep connection to the coyote”
You mean those Native Americans whom the white man came along and thrust their religion upon? Who wiped away their history? Who’s destructive path continues to this very day? Those Native Americans were ‘on’ to something but the white man is deaf and blind, does not hear or see, or only hears and sees what he (or she) wants to hear or see! He is an addict to material things and fear. He lives in fear and knows it not….until his health or wealth, or both, start slipping away! He lives, as Joe Walsh once sung… a life of illusion. This capitalistic world we (Americans) live in…..is not a real culture. It diminishes real values at the very least……………
William says: “Pretty sure 200 years ago they had no problem shooting coyotes and wolves. Just saying.”
They killed every ‘thing’ that moved back then William! Meaning that our psychology hasn’t really changed that much, and were it not for the laws we’d probably still be killing every ‘thing’ that moved…..which some of us evidently have the inclination to do, which goes back to ‘our psychology hasn’t really changed that much.’ It’s the laws which have changed our behavior to some large degree….thankfully. How long can the laws work before we become a lawless nation, like Syria or Myanmar, etc.! We seem to be working on this, unconsciously or not!
And wildlife has rebounded amazingly. I mean we have moose and wolves in NY….there is no end in site to the coyote population yet people still want to tinker with it based on their personal agenda and not science.
There are many animals that still have not come back to NY yet that were in NY 200 to 300 years ago. Even Buffalo resided in NY until the colonizers and their guns. Even elk. Plenty more. Actually – coyotes are not native to NY… They are migrants. Wolves and cougars kill coyotes. When all the wolves and cougars in the northeast were killed off – it allowed coyotes to expand their populations into NY
The fact that it ate a wild diet does not mean, without doubt, that the animal migrated to the Adirondacks. There is no evidence thus far presented that proves the animal migrated on its own to New York. Wolves are protected federally, and NYS should do all it can to enforce regulations that protect them if they arrive. However, jumping to conclusions re: the origins of this particular wolf is just that — making an assumption without scientific evidence.
Because we are failing to adequately address the climate change crisis, in the not-t0-distant future snowmobiles will be a distant memory.
The killing of coyotes should be stopped, period. There is no scientific rational for this behavior nor is it an effort to put food on the table or in the freezer. Then wolves might be able to safely return and be the auditory or visual tourist attraction they are in other areas like Ely, Minnesota or in Yellowstone, and our northeastern forests would be more balanced and not overgrazed.
How are we failing on climate change?? What more can be done?? Policies can’t be instituted immediately.
Why do away with coyote hunting?? I see the coyote dens on my property. I see how each one has 10-14 living in them. They breed and then make another den. They grow and grow. They are just like any other animal. If population is not kept in check they will get out of control. No reason at all to do away with hunting coyotes. This coming from someone who doesn’t hunt for coyotes will take one if out deer hunting.
Good point, Rob. On the ground we can be responsible. Hunters have a duty to promote good stewardship. Coyotes messing with my chickens will be dealt with quickly. White tail dear are a blessing, but too many are a problem. Kind of like climate change extremists. Science cannot prove humans contribute to warming and scientists are foolish to conclude humans could change it. Many factors effect ozone. How about volcanos ? This rock is spinning just as it was designed. Maybe we are doomed, but I doubt climate should be at the top of the list. How about feeding everyone first? Who is willing to do there share. CO2 is good, crack a beer, what is that sound ? Maybe eliminate those dang useless eaters and drinkers?
I have to disagree with many of Mr. Bauer’s comments. Is he a wildlife biologist? He suggests that all canids killed in NY should be checked and tagged.When you include all coyotes and foxes that is a monumental task.
Bag limits for coyotes? Does Mr.Bauer realize the damage they do to small game and livestock? Size limitations on coyotes? Give me a break.Do I have to weigh every coyote that I kill?
I have trapped the Adirondacks for better than 50 years. I am not a wildlife biologist, but obviously Mr.Bauer is not. His recommendations border on the ridiculous on something he surely knows nothing about.
To add to the confusion, and both the Almanack and the Explorer have published several articles on the Eastern Coyote, which is a Wolf/Coyote/Domestic Dog Hybrid, appears very wolf like, and is commonly found in NYS. Numerous DNA studies have shown this to be so.
I’m not a hunter, but I spend time in the woods and driving the Adirondack roads at night. On numerous occasions I’ve seen what on first sight would seem to be a wolf. Probably and likely was the Eastern Coyote-Wolf hybrid.
They are big.
Not much dog, maybe 10%. Lot of wolf, 26% or so. They’ve stopped using the term “coydog” which was never really accurate.
https://nywolf.org/2018/08/eastern-coyote-genetics/
Rob says: “Let’s just go back to getting everyone to work, without free handouts.”
You must be doing quite well Rob! You must have all you need, financial stability, a roof over your head, no worries. You’re comfortable aren’t you? Food on your table. The American dream! Every American owning their own home. This hasn’t been true for quite the length of time where have you been! It’s worse since Covid! $75,000 homes selling for half a million. Geez. Every American can afford that! Now’s a good time to own real estate that’s fer shur! Like you right!
Work? Like where do you suppose ‘everyone’ should look for work? At Hannanford’s or Walmart? Twenty registers, two-only open. Who needs humans when there’s machines which provide self-checkout? Let’s face it Rob, there’s not enough jobs to go around and besides….people need more than $9. an hour to meet their bills which continue to climb.
“Free handouts!” You lose sleep over the thought don’t you Rob. It just bothers the Smithereens out of you that you worked so hard all your life and then along comes millions of useless nobody’s who need help and they’re getting it thanks to your hard-earned tax dollars!
Wow Charlie, someone must have pissed in your Wheaties this morning. I don’t lose sleep and it doesn’t bother me to smithereens that I have to pay taxes for these programs. But they need reform. I’ve hand numerous people tell me while I was working “what do i need a job for, I’ll get welfare.” I did work hard. My wife worked hard. Invested wisely. It wasn’t easy. Real estate has gotten crazy. Why?? Because bought properties at prices that were way over priced. And they kept buying and buying. But not everyone has to own there own home for the American dream.
Plenty of jobs out there besides Wal Mart. Plenty. I’ve spent the last 3 months working at my cousins machine shop. 4 day work week. Health insurance. 3 weeks paid vacation to start. Plus the shut down and pay all employees between Xmas & new year’s. So 4 weeks actually. 401k. Starting at $20and change. They can’t get anyone. Keep going to the self checkouts and every store will do away with people running registers.
How much do we keep taxing people for this stuff and other programs these politicians have mentioned. Free college for all?? I’m paying for my kids now. I don’t want to pay for everyone else’s. Why should YOU pay taxes to put my kid or any other kid through college. Free healthcare?? Same thing. Eliminating college debt?? It’s not getting eliminated, it’s getting passed on to the taxpayers. I have no issues paying taxes. But let’s use that money for infrastructure. Paying our police and fire dept. paying our state workers out working the roads. The hospital staffs at the state level. Stuff that will require “people” to do the job. If your fine paying for all these free programs you can pay my share. I hope the rest of your day will get better. I’m off to the range. I was asked to join the seniors skeet shooting at the local club. Supposed to be a gorgeous sunny day. Might as well get out and enjoy it!! Hope you can enjoy yours!!
I can only hope you men do have a good day. We should not fret over past misdeeds by our leaders. I still believe our country is the best . It always has been great. I m sure we could not liberate France with our leadership today. However divided states will never prevail. The liberal movement has ruined many people, not our country. The majority still rules, but that story won’t sell. Scared folks are easy to control. Seize the day, do what is right and the youth will learn eventually. Don’t let your emotions overpower your intelligence. It is unfortunate the “boomers” are not more like their parents. Now let’s get back to coyotes and wolves, I love all the critters!
I have had a great day!! Hope you did as well Paul!!
Good, get enough lead on the skeet? I’m not great on moving targets. Give me a 500 yard still and I can hit every time. The ole win mag really can reach out and touch, if you know what I mean.
I did ok. Didn’t use my own gun. In Florida for a couple weeks. Was at the range on Wednesday shooting the pistol and got talking to a guy about shooting skeet. Told me Thursday was “senior day” and I should come join them. I’m not a senior yet but had nothing else going on. I got my butt kicked. Lol. Found out these guys don’t shoot just on Thursday. They shoot just about every day. Lol. Still had a great time. Lots of laughs.
My dad has an old Win mag in .308. He got it when he was stationed in Alaska in the early 70’s. Smooth shooting gun. Accuracy is unbelievable. Someday I’ll have it in my possession. Versatility depending on grain of ammo is unbelievable. Can shoot woodchucks to elk. My dad bought it to hunt caribou when he was stationed in Alaska.
It’s good to know there are still like minded folks around. I always wanted to go on a caribou hunt . Moose would be ok too. They are making a comeback in upstate NY, where I’m from. Also eagles and osprey. They are so beautiful in flight. My dad would joke around about wishing to come back as a great bird. He was a WW2 pilot. Gave me a Winchester 32 special long rifle. And his first gun a 1937 Mossburg 22 rifle. Spend time with Dad if ya can. I sure miss mine, Many great memories outdoors.
Amen Paul. Some of my greatest childhood memories are of hunting with my father and older brother in Central New York. My dad wasn’t a deer hunter so we hunted mostly pheasants, grouse, rabbits. My favorite Christmas present of all times was a used 16 ga pump shotgun that I got on the Christmas before my 14th birthday. My own gun! Like I said, best Christmas present ever. I hope everyone can, did, or will share something special like this with their parents. If not hunting, then find something else. Thanks for reminding me of this.
I see my dad on a regular basis. But a lot of the times we are together or together we people we currently or have previously hunted with the stories always come back to hunting. The stories and the binding that happens because of hunting is unlike anything else. Absolutely love it.
“I don’t lose sleep and it doesn’t bother me to smithereens that I have to pay taxes for these programs. But they need reform.”
> Like in what way do they need reform? And what doesn’t need reform? How about nuclear de-proliferation! There’s a problem we seem to not lose sleep over! Saving unborn babies is more important than the world blowing up! We can go on! “Free handouts.” Those few words say a lot Rob, and if I read you wrong maybe that’s because i’ve heard it too often….from people who are doing quite well and who seem to be bothered by those who are not doing quite well, who seem, in conversation, to me, to be possessed with thoughts of people needing to get jobs, not as if they are concerned for them as much as if their money is being effected in some kind of negative way because others are not working, or getting free handouts. Why should that bother someone who is doing quite well financially? You’d think there’d be some kind of compassion!
“I’ve hand numerous people tell me while I was working “what do i need a job for, I’ll get welfare.”
> So let us judge a whole segment of society due to a thousandth of a fraction of the whole of them hey? I’m not of the mind to buck heads with all you say Rob as we can go on ad infinitum and get nowhere. Your “Free handouts” snark got me going and so I jumped! I’m glad you’re doing well in life. While I’ll make the most of mine as I always do, enjoy your sunny day.
Yup you guessed it Charlie. I’m loaded. Didn’t bust my ass for 30 years at 2 jobs to get where I am. Didn’t realize I was so easy to figure out. I’ll enjoy another sunny day today. Hope your weather is sunny also.
So your good with free handouts huh?? How about San Francisco wanted to pay reparations to descendants of slaves. Lump sum payment of 5 million, complete and full forgiveness of personal debt, an annual income of $97,000 and the ability to by any house within city limits for $1.
I do not agree with slavery that happened. But that was 200 years ago. Why should we have to pay for the mistakes of people 200 years ago?? But again your good with the free handouts so wouldn’t have an issue paying the taxes to fund this. Me, this is something that definitely needs to be addressed in this country. Tax payers should not be paying for this.
I don’t agree with the extent of reparations suggested by San Francisco. There are dozens of incidents and practices that the federal and state governments are guilty of and could be worthy of reparations, but who else would pay for them? Would we track down descendants of known slave owners and somehow get reparations from them?
No one should agree to reparations. Especially after seeing what they are proposing.
Yup crickets. Figured that would happen.
“I still believe our country is the best . It always has been great.”
Our country hasn’t always been great Paul. If you read the history you’ll know this. Our recent history is not a thing to be proud about neither. I need not go into specifics as surely you have been on Earth at least twenty years. It’s good to be positive, but it is even better to be a realist. Only then will we come to terms with what we’re up against, or what is real, and then we’ll get somewhere.
“The liberal movement has ruined many people.”
Yes, let’s get back to coyotes and wolves as we’re getting nowhere here!
Good points Charlie, I guess I’m not really sure what we are up against today. I can only try to discern from outcomes. I was told once not to believe anything I hear and half of what I see. My Dad was a bomber pilot and Mom was a army nurse. I’m the youngest of six. I would like to think I’ve picked up a little wisdom from them. Dad told me never trust the government . Two wings of the same bird he said. His Dad was a NYS sheriff during prohibition. He could tell some stories. One I remember was how he said Joe Kennedy was worse than Al Capone but he paid his taxes. Mom said to take it all with a grain of salt. Politics and religion are problematic and both man made. Seek Truth, that’s one of his names.😉
Why does everyone want to kill all the creatures that were here before we were?? Gun happy murderers.
Ah there you go Deb. Lumping all gun owners and hunters into one group. Your just as bad as our politicians.
“I was told once not to believe anything I hear and half of what I see.”
This is the problem Paul! “We were told” which means we’re not thinking for ourselves. Not to believe anything we hear is setting ourselves up to denying reality, as ‘not believing anything’ implies denying everything! Not believing half of what we see implies that we’re denying half of what is real, as what we see must be real else it wouldn’t be presented to us in the first place. We’re either realist or we’re deniers Paul. Or we’re half-asleep! Or we live a life of illusion. Or there’s some ‘thing’ stuck on our brains. This is not the same as the analogy of the glass being half empty or half full, viz… ‘we see what we wish to see.’
Which is it going to be with you?
I thought we were getting back to nature? The point was think for your self. Reality is “your” perception. When the “professor “ (who was paid quite nicely) told me to honor men such as Plato, Socrates, Aristotle I knew he was nuts. How could you honor men who were clearly morally deviant in their personal lives? Men of honor are hero’s, not plebeian philosophical sodomites. Human lives are at stake, and we are worried about coyotes and wolves ? Shame ! Sure I think about the invasive Russian boar 🐗 I’d like to shoot and eat him ! Blood thirsty ? No, the food pantry will accept hams. I wish we could have meaningful dialogue to help individuals first then the environment. The wolves and coyotes are smarter than 95% of our society. ( not you Charlie)
This article made me giggle a little bit. Anyone who’s spent much time in Otsego County knows that we have wolves. I saw a pair waiting for 5pm traffic to clear so they could cross Rt 28, just south of the Village of Cooperstown. That was easily 12-15 years ago. They are beautiful animals.
Otsego County most certainly does have the terrain to support wolves…. plenty of woods, wooded hills, lots of open space, streams, more woods; and, as in many places up here in the northeast, if you’re looking for rural country you’ll find it in Otsego County. Excellent habitat for wolves! It’s like stepping back in time Otsego County is! Just a beautiful place to visit, chock-full of history too. The early New York (including Otsego County) and New England history is replete with wolf history, New Jersey the same, etc….. Wolves were everywhere in this country at one time! Then along came the white man! Before my dad died he told me he saw two wolves in the Adirondacks since he had moved up there in the early 80s, one in Indian Lake, the other I forget where, though surely these events are in my notes somewhere.
I cite two mere examples from my literary collection below of wolf history up here in the northeast:
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“Restless nights were caused to the Puritans by the wolves as they howled singly and in chorus when appearing in the settlement during the hours of darkness. An occasional crash at the enclosures where sheep, pigs and other animals were thought to be safeguarded, revealed the presence of the intruders. The ever-ready gun was brought forth in the hands of a trusty Puritan, and there was one less wolf to annoy the people after its well-directed charge reached its mark………”
> From: Narratives of Newark (In New Jersey) From the Days of Its Founding 1666-1916 David Lawrence Pierson 1917
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“There is nothing so surprising to the foreigner, in the history of this country, as the rapidity with which the wilderness is transformed into fertile fields. Villages and cities arise as if by magic. The wolf and the panther are scarcely driven from their haunts, ere they are occupied by a teeming population. The screech of the owl scarcely dies away before it is succeeded by the scream of the locomotive–the hum of busy life, and the sound of the church-going bell……………”
>From:The Genesee Farmer….Daniel Lee & James Vick, Jr. Volume xii 1851
While I wholeheartedly agree that education is the key to wildlife management, changing the management policy around coyote hunting won’t have an impact on wolfs.
We have way too many coyotes in upstate New York and the hunting season should not be changed or modified as the article suggests. No night hunting will severely limit the amount of coyote hunting and the shortened season will also have the same effect. There are way too many of these coyotes killing countless animals and I mostly being unchecked due to the fact that there was not many people especially the younger people that are into this type of hunting.
Completely agree!! Well said.
January 21, 2023, a pair of grey wolves crossed our property at the base of the mountain in Schoharie, New York. Have a photo of one of them. Beautiful and big!
Cheryl, have you read some of the comments?
Giving location isn’t going to help any animal – wolf, coyote or whatever. Unfortunately not everyone appreciates them or thinks they’re “beautiful”.
I don’t think it is that people do think there beautiful or appreciate them. But with all the people here who say they’ve seen a wolf in the state there should be hundreds of them. If not more. That’s not the case. Think most people are seeing coyotes
I don’t like to criticize, but it seems like some of the readers are thinking that they are seeing wolves when in reality they are seeing coyotes. While there are some wolves here, they are very few and far between. I have trapped in the adirondacks for over 50 years and have never seen caught a wolf, nor do I know of anyone catching one.
I believe you are right Al. I also camped and hunted the Adirondack back country for over 50 years. And by back country I mean the least populated areas along the West Canada creek in Hoffmeister, Morehouse area of the central Adirondacks. Saw large coyotes but never saw a wolf, track or scat.
I understand that ‘clicks’ are all that matter to websites today, but please please please let this subject die a peaceful death, and soon. Can we all agree that the subject has been appropriately covered? Let’s move on to something that REALLY impacts the lives of our Adirondack neighbors. Thanks for listening and have a great day.